Please tell me about Andalusians

[moonlitoaksranch]

Are they only good for some types showing? Do they make good all around enjoyable horses? I always loved the appearance of Spanish horses, but they’re so much bigger now then they used to be. Fifteen hands is nice. Sixteen or higher is too tall for my little self. I don’t know if I could ever afford one, nor would I want such a tall horse. Are there still regular sized Andalusians, or is being super sized the new show trend?

Are they difficult to train? I know they have Barb influence, but what does that do for their temperament? What are they like to work with? Are their gaits natural enough to not need any “aids” when you train them, or is the gait manipulated?

There was a big name farm a friend of mine worked on as a summer intern/training apprentice. They had this trainer that was absolutely brutal. The things she told me made me shudder. How forgiving do Andalusians have to be to still perform after being handled like that? She quit at the end of summer.

I’m not planning on being rich enough to buy one. My fascination comes from my Mustang. She looks a lot like a little Spanish horse. I’d like to know more about her refined ‘cousins’.

[MojitoMare]

I have an Andalusian. Like any horse, there are variations within the breed of course. But for the most part, they tend to be calm, not spooky. They are smart, and have a heck of a work ethic. They really love attention and are almost like dogs in that regard.

I bought my mare as a two year old from a reputable breeder, and she’s been trained just like any other horse, so I can’t speak to any of the cruel training methods.

As far as the gaits? Andalusians aren’t gaited. But what you are asking about the aids depends on how the horse is trained, I think. My mare responds to aids just as any other horse would.

I show my mare in dressage and she’s doing pretty well. We just got back from regional championships, and she did place in her class. We also dabble in working equitation. And mine loves to go out exploring on the trail. She is totally fine trail riding alone.

Overall, my mare is probably the easiest horse I’ve ever owned. We joke that she was born broke. She’s still very young, but we use her to lead insecure horses on the trail, and teach other horses to load onto a trailer, etc.

[Feathered_Feet]

I’m sure you will get a lot of responses expounding on the virtues of the breed (and there are many, too be sure!) so I will let someone more knowledgeable chime in there. But I will say that, if budget and height is a concern, you might be very happy looking at an Azteca - a 50:50 Spanish:Quarter Horse cross. They can be much more budget friendly and some look absolutely lovely.

[moonlitoaksranch]

Thanks for responding! The gait thing…not well worded, sorry. I didn’t know if aids are used to enhance their movement for show purposes. That was done at the farm I referred to, but in a cruel way.

[moonlitoaksranch]

Thanks for the tip. I’m not horse shopping now, but that sounds like an interesting cross. I really like my little Mustang, so no need for another horse right now.

Are there any health issues or genetic issues with Andalusians?

[Bluey]

Grey horse melanomas are more common in them and most were bred for grey, colored ones not bred from, until the past two decades or so, when everyone wanted one.

You may want to ask more about what kind of enhanced gaits that story was, as Andalusians have gaits just like other horses?

I wonder if your friend worked in a Mexican dancing horse stable.
They want horses jigging in place somehow showing off.
No telling how some may train for that.
There any andalusians happen to just be unlucky, they use all kinds of horses for that.

[Scribbler]

Andalusians and Lusitanos are smarter, more people oriented, and more expressive than many other breeds. They are forward. They have an insane ability to collect and do lateral work.

The trot gait varies from high knees rather choppy looking to longer stride. This is just genetic.

They cross beautifully on QH TB and WB, and the resulting cross will look Iberian.

I’m mostly seeing smaller ones.

My coach has some Iberians and crosses, I’ve ridden one, I’ve gone to our national Iberian shows, was judges gofer at one and watched everythung for 2 days including the inhand breeding classes, which are great for seeing how horses naturally move. A lot of variation.

[moonlitoaksranch]

Not that kind of stable. The horses were at the big expos with costumed riders (knights as such).

Melanomas did cross my mind, seeing all the grays.

[moonlitoaksranch]

Thank you for the clarification. I went to a show once and saw the high stepping types. I’m glad that’s a genetic thing and not pushed through artificial aids.

Iberian means either Lustiano or Andalusian (Spanish)? What’s the main difference between the two breeds? I’m impressed at how far back the stud books go.

[moonlitoaksranch]

That’s neat how easy going your mare is. She seems to be very versatile. She would probably eat up the competition at an obstacle course!

I don’t know if they have ranch work in their background. Do they have any cow sense? Aren’t Lustianos used in bull fighting? Now that they have the bloodless bull fights, I wouldn’t mind seeing those brave horses in action.

[Scribbler]

All the Iberians have cattle work in their history. Go look up Spanish Working Equitation to see their versatility. The Spanish Andalusian and Portuguese Lusitano stud books diverged in the 20th century. Lusitano are a bit heavier necked than Andalusian currently.

They work cattle with garrocha poles not lassoes and you can find this on YouTube as well.

The Iberians tend to work more upright than QH. They can pop to a stop from canter rather than slide. They are crazy manuoevrable.

They may not be as fast as QH. After all some QH can outrun a TB on the quarter mile ( but dont have the stamina for the longer stretch) . Iberians are more upright. But fast enough for cattle work.

There is a lot on line including the Golega horse fair in Portugal.

[moonlitoaksranch]

Thanks! I’ll look that up. My little Mustang, with her mutt Spanish blood, is very cowy.

[Bluey]

Some decades ago, there were two main lines in Andalusians, the Jerezano, a chunkier, more compact and very talented for high school collection and movements.
They were, especially the mares, used as light draft horses, on pretty carts and fancy wagons.
They also tended to be more choppy in their way of going, hard to extend much.
The other type was the Cartujano, that had a little more light horse in them, was lankier, but still hefty, was more a longer distance horse and more of a general riding/traveling horse, not so talented in high school movements.

Then there were many horses between those, some tending more to one or the other type.
These were what the general horse owning and riding public had, the extreme ones more for showing off and breeders as they preferred.

Here is one horse on an older display of Doma Vaquera of the older type, notice he never touches the reins.
Today it seems to be a competition and so trained further and more participating than when it used to be more of demonstrations of ability without being judged:

Garrocha

[lorilu]

until the mid 60’s, there was only one studbook. Then the Lusitanos broke away. There are various blood lines in each stud book - some more “traditional”, others for more “working” sorts, and now a days some breeding for the dressage discipline… In my (rather limited) experience, Andalusians can be heavy in the shoulder with flashier front ends than haunches. Lusitanos can be more balanced overall. IMO getting either of them to use their backs rather than just throw their legs around can be a challenge. SOme are very smooth to sit because their backs are locked…
ANd in general training techniques are different from the typical warmblood. I am very careful who I clinic with - in my experience the Iberians find their balance in slow and steady work, not by being pushed “forward” into balance.
I owned an andalusian that was very “warmblood” in build and movement; I showed him in traditional braids because at the time there was still some bias in judging (largely gone now). I currently own two Lusitanos - one “viega” bred - the bullfighting lines. Brave, quick, smart. The other bred for the dressage discipline. Safe, brave, smart.

THe smartness is a mixed blessing

[Janet]

The aids for an Andalusian are no different from the aids for any other breed.

[ecileh]

I have an Andalusian/TB cross. She sticks at 15.3, but has a high wither–I suspect her back is actually 15, though haven’t ever measured it. Bought her as a 13 year old. Prior to me she had done jumpers, fox hunting, and a lot of trail riding for guests of the previous owner.

I use her primarily as my field hunter and she is a machine in the hunt field. GREAT brain outside–the perfect mix of brave and “hmm…are you sure about that?”. Loves the hounds, leads like a dream, follows with some conversation. In the ring, she is a different and much less pleasant horse to be on, but she will jump the moon.

She has a particular trot-gear that I like to call the Tunie Shuffle. Lots of knee action (like you can see the knee out of the corner of your eye) and suspension. It is quite fast, but very smooth. So smooth in fact that I have a hard time posting it. There is a lot of horizontal movement and almost no vertical. She did it on the longe line for my vet and when I asked about it he said “that’s the Andalusian”…so while they are not gaited, per se, there does seem to be a type of trot that is unique.

Personality wise, I would call her quirky. She is quite sweet, but it took her a long time to warm up to me and she is not one to like people who do not work with her regularly. She is polite to strangers, but also quite aloof. She’s pretty reasonable, but there are a few lines in the proverbial sand that we’ve had to work around and I have made some compromises with her–like I do not expect her to be a great horse in the ring because her job is to be a field hunter and she is great at that. We’ll never win a hunter class because of this, but she doesn’t need to.

I am not sure I would seek out another A/TB (maybe a sibling of hers), but she sure is a great little mare.

[173north]

Chiming in with an Azteca question - I see lots in my area and they are SO cute and look like awesome little ammy horses. Does anyone know if they tend to be decent jumpers? I rode some really scopey QHs as a teen but I don’t know how the Andalusian cross might impact that.

[Willesdon]

Having ridden both pure Spanish and pure Portuguese, I personally prefer the Lusitano. I think they are a little more functional because they have always been used for work and sport. I have seen Lusitanos show jumping and eventing as well as doing dressage but never a PRE. Interestingly, the Spanish themselves often use part-breds for sport and leisure such as the Hispano-arab or the Tres Sangre which is PRE×TB×Arab. However, both PRE and Lusitanos are the most delightful people and wonderful companions.

[Feathered_Feet]

I would not buy one for any serious jumping or hunters, but no reason a sound Azteca can’t pop over a couple small fences. But, as with any discipline, if you want to excel in a sport, buy a horse bred for the sport. (Neither QHs or Iberians are purpose-bred for jumping.)

[173north]

Gotcha, that’s what I figured.