Please tell me my puppy will turn into a quiet adult dog!!

[rodawn]

She’s herding your cats. She is a herding dog. All shepherds are herders.

First, she should get calmer after you get her spayed, so do that ASAP.

Second, get a spray bottle fill it with 3/4 full with water and top it up with lemon juice. EVERY time she goes after the cat, spray her (this does not hurt her) with a high-volume high-velocity shot of water by a hard pull on the trigger spray, then take her by the scruff and put her down. She is to stay down until you allow her to get up. If she fights you putting her down, keep holding her down until she goes quiet and lays still. You’re not doing this to hurt her, just asserting your authority which is similar to what a dog would do - except they would use their teeth! You are just using your hands.

Teach her claiming words with objects that belong to you - whether it be shoes, socks, chair, or the cats - the word is “MINE!” You own it, she’ll learn you don’t share these particular objects, especially MY CAT.

You may have to resign yourself that some dogs are always going to be tending towards their strongest instinct. Some dogs, this is a high prey drive. Some dogs, this is a strong herding instinct… and you’ll have to watch carefully and never trust. I suggest you give your cats a quiet room that only they can get to - perhaps put in one of those swinging kitty door in the door of the room where their litter box, food and water are, and keep the big door to the room closed.

Crate your puppy at night and when you, yourself, are getting tired. Also crate her when you are cooking supper, any time you cannot supervise, and while you are eating dinner. Provide her chew toys while in the crate.

Teach your puppy limits to allowable locations in your house. Some places must be learned as being off limits. No exceptions. Our bedroom is off limits to our dogs.

Do you have a treadmill? Once she is over 8 months of age, use the treadmill to exercise her. Train her how to walk, then jog on the treadmill. This way, you can rest and she can work.

Continue with the leadership trend - she does not bound through doorways ahead of you, does not go up and down stairs ahead of you. Behind your heel always.

Try taking her swimming and teaching her to retrieve something. Swimming is excellent excercise and easy on the joints, especially in a growing puppy.

If you cannot find peace and quiet, and must rehome her, try to find someone who uses dogs for herding. Her best life-time situation is to be used for something for which her mind, soul and spirit obviously crave - HERDING! The traits you describe herd-dog breeders crave in their dogs. A Very Strong Herding Instinct.

[BigPaintHorse]

I should start this with the disclaimer that I train and show some very high drive herding dogs in dogs sports so my levels of wild may be different than some.

Your puppy looks like she could be a malinois mix or a shepherd mix but either way she can have a very high prey drive.

If you make the decision that you want to keep her and work through this there are a couple of ways to go about it in my opinion.

The first through positive reinforcement may take longer and will require more management at first. I have found that things taught through positive reinforcement tend to stick longer once the reinforcer is taken away then those taught through negative reinforcment. Granted you can combine the two if you want and I would probably suggest that in this case at the end of training.

To start out you need to teach the puppy an alternative behavior when she sees the cats. It would be go lay down on a mat if I were starting with the training. I woudl clicker train the puppy that when the cat is around she is laying down on her mat. BUT to do this you must take away the option of chasing the cat because chasing the cat will probably be more rewarding than anything you have to reinforce the down with.

after she knows that part so that the cat appearing triggers her to think about her mat or a down or what ever you chose then I would probably put a pinch collar and a long line on her and when she looked at the cat to chase it I would correct her with a sharp snap. I wouldn’t yell and woudl try to make it so she never knew I was around when the correction happened. that bad cat made that collar bite you type of reaction.

If you can’t stop the chasing of the cat to teach the alternate behavior then you can go directly to a correction for looking at the cat. I personally would be sure that I wasn’t connected with the correction so that she thinks the correction may happen when I am not around.

Let me know if you have any questions or would like me to see if my trainer friends in Canada know of anyone in your area.

BPH

[wendy]

why is the puppy “able” to chase the cats? tether the pup to you 24/7 (and in the crate rest of the time) so the pup can’t practise chasing. Then every time you’re near (or far) from a cat and the pup is more-or-less ignoring the cat reward the puppy vigorously.

Telling dogs to NOT DO things is not a good strategy- dogs don’t speak english, and teaching a dog something as vague as “don’t do THAT” (while it can be done) is much more difficult than teaching a dog to do something explicit. Also, if you accidentally teach your dog to only “NOT CHASE CATS” when you tell the dog to “NOT CHASE” you may very well end up with a dog that happily chases cats when you aren’t around to give commands.
I wouldn’t use a correction on a puppy this young; if she were older, maybe.

The puppy sounds very under-exercised, under-socialized, and under-mentally-stimulated at the moment. Are you taking puppy classes?

These high-energy, high-drive dogs can be very challenging, but also are often the most rewarding. And no, they don’t turn into quiet adult dogs, but if you work at it you end up with a dog who has a ton of energy and drive and is willing and eager to channel every ounce of that drive and energy into whatever you want the dog to do.

[dogchushu]

My dogs have always been high energy puppies who mellow into high energy adults. That means they do slow down quite a bit, but they still remain high energy dogs. I don’t think a bunny on caffeine pup will turn into a couch potato, but she will slow down somewhat.

Does your dog like toys? If so, a really good way to keep a dog occupied and not running about is to make sure you provide her with a toy she likes, but don’t leave the toys “free access.” Give them to her sparingly so they remain special treats. That way, if you need the dog to settle and not be running about trying for your attention, you can give her a special toy.

As for the cat chasing, you may have to manage it. My two shelties (one since passed on) got over cat chasing with a couple swats. My current mini aussie doesn’t seem to mind being swatted. Chasing a running cat is too much fun.

I’ve taught him good recall (great, actually) so he’ll leave off chasing the cat if I call him. You just have to make the recall more rewarding than the fun cat chasing (meaning: use really high value treats/rewards).

The problem is, there’s no command I’ve found that means “don’t START chasing the cat.” So I’ve put up baby gates in the doors of a couple rooms. The cat can go in there and be dog free (I put the litter box and cat food in those room, so I never have to deal with the dogs eating the cat’s food or -shudder- her litter). I’ve also put a couple cat trees up in the house, so the cat can hang out up above the dog’s reach. The cat has learned it’s really fun to hang out on the cat tree and mess with the dog. :rolleyes:

Also, if your dog really like chasing things, make sure to give her several good games of fetch. Tires her out and gives her a chance to chase something other than the cat.

[Simkie]

I have a dog that I didn’t even really LIKE until she was about 3 years old, and she is now so good that I can take her anywhere, do anything with her and she gets nothing but compliments from everyone. She almost never puts a toe wrong. If you can stick with the tough ones, they usually turn into the BEST grown up dogs (provided, of course, that you put in the hours doing the training.)

Few things I have learned from dealing with difficult, difficult puppies:

You MUST be 100% consistent. Anyone handling the dog MUST be handling the dog in the same way, with the same expectations. If a difficult dog is handled in an inconsistent manner, they will just act out and not listen to anything.

The dog should have no opportunity be away from you or out of your site or chase anything, especially since she’s already shown this is an issue. My puppies spend a LOT of time on a 6’ leash attached to my belt. Once I think they “get” that they need to be WITH ME, they get a trial off the leash. If they prove they HAVEN’T gotten it, they go right back on.

Give them a job. Anything. If they’re really struggling, make it super easy, so you get the opportunity to praise them frequently. With my most difficult dog, I realized she was just doing everything “wrong” all the time and I just wasn’t finding the opportunities to praise her. I started having her sit probably 100 times a day, JUST to get the chance to get some positive reinforcement in there.

Also consider a wide variety of training modalities. While I swore I would never, ever use an electronic collar, it was literally the ONLY thing that worked to keep Koa from barking in the backyard. Clicker training might be just what you need, or a zap from a training collar to reinforce your “no!” might be just what you need, or pelting the dog with light beanbags might be what you need (you laugh, but I know someone who had an outside trainer used that method to keep the dog from bolting down the street when let outside! Totally bizarre, but it worked for them.) Think outside the box, and if you’re not getting what you need from a trainer, don’t be afraid to talk to someone different.

[fivehorses]

I think you have rec’d some good advice.

I would hesitate using an electronic collar. I had to resort to one for my dog who would take off and be gone for hours. Great recall, except when she wanted to go off exploring, and she’d look back at me and basically buzz me off.

The electronic collar had to be used 1 time, warning, then a shock. She was no dummy.

WHy I hesitate to recommend it, is you sound like there are times you have lost it(screaming) and you can hear your stress with the dog in your posts. Also, you crate the dog for being bad, and I always thought crates were not meant as go in there you are bad. I don’t mean to offend you, but you could really do damage to a dog with an electronic collar, because they are not meant to be punishment but a correction. Hope this is making sense.

After reading your posts, I thought, give the dog back(and I am not one to give up), but it just sounds like its already escalated to a level of this dog isn’t like our previous dogs, and resentment.

I also would recommend, you might want to not get such a young dog in the future. older dogs are easier, so much easier. I said, my now 5 year old would probably be my last puppy. Just not as into all the work that goes into making a good canine citizen.

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=fivehorses;5842201]
I also would recommend, you might want to not get such a young dog in the future. older dogs are easier, so much easier. I said, my now 5 year old would probably be my last puppy. Just not as into all the work that goes into making a good canine citizen.[/QUOTE]

One caution with this. Sometimes older dogs can be a gem and other times, not so much. I had an 8 year old dog come to me with such deep, permanent behavior issues that I told all of my friends and family members multiple times that if anything happened to me, he was to be euthed. He was safe with me and my daughter but nobody else.

[Simkie]

@fivehorses;5842201

Why I hesitate to recommend it, is you sound like there are times you have lost it(screaming) and you can hear your stress with the dog in your posts. Also, you crate the dog for being bad, and I always thought crates were not meant as go in there you are bad. I don’t mean to offend you, but you could really do damage to a dog with an electronic collar, because they are not meant to be punishment but a correction. Hope this is making sense.

Ah. Yes. Very good point.

[wendy]

Second, get a spray bottle fill it with 3/4 full with water and top it up with lemon juice. EVERY time she goes after the cat, spray her (this does not hurt her) with a high-volume high-velocity shot of water by a hard pull on the trigger spray, then take her by the scruff and put her down. She is to stay down until you allow her to get up. If she fights you putting her down, keep holding her down until she goes quiet and lays still. You’re not doing this to hurt her, just asserting your authority which is similar to what a dog would do - except they would use their teeth! You are just using your hands.

I would absolutely not do this under any circumstances. It is NOT what “dogs do”.

1. many, if not all, herding dogs deeply enjoy being sprayed with water. Go to any agility trial and watch them playing with the hose.
2. dogs do not grab each other and forcibly put each other on the ground. Ever. Some dogs find being forcibly flung down so traumatic they will never trust you again, ever; some dogs will fight back and you’ll get badly bitten; others are so traumatized they decide to start fear-biting anyone who tries to touch them; others think you’re trying to play and that, combined with the fun of being sprayed, means you just rewarded your pup for chasing cats; and the real downside is in order to get hold of your pup in order to punish him this way you have to catch the puppy- guess what happens if you start chasing your puppy around and punish him severely when you catch him: you can say bye-bye to ever having a good recall.

-I wouldn’t even consider using an ecollar on a dog until it was well over 6 months old, and by then you should have managed to train this dog using more effective methods so you won’t need it anyway.

-either the OP has severe “puppy amnesia” or she was EXTREMELY lucky in puppies before. I don’t think I’ve ever owned a puppy who “slept most of the time” and who wasn’t a lot of work and at times made you consider giving the pup away to the next person you saw. And they just get worse- the adolescent period- before they tend to get better.

[BoldChance]

I thought the same as another poster when I saw the picture - perhaps she is part malinois?

If so, the description a master trainer who breeds malinois’ gave me is that they are “a german shepherd on crack”. Super, super, SUPER border-collie like high-energy, and yes - a herding breed.

So she’s high energy, and herding your cats

I only use THAT emoticon, because, well, I have an 11month old border collie pup, and not just ANY b.c. pup, but pick girl of a litter of trial lines.

I did not know what I was getting into.

But I love her. And I’m deriving some good advice from this thread too!

[BigPaintHorse]

I wasn’t going to say it but my sister describes my working bred Belgians as “NASA educated crack heads with OCD.”