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Please tell me my puppy will turn into a quiet adult dog!!

The Menagerie
#1

Background: I have raised lots of puppies over the years. I have done extensive obedience classes for years, dog trials, etc., and my dogs have always had the best manners - no begging, hand signal commands, etc. and all of our dogs over the years have always lived with us in the house and all have learned to help me with chores, catching horses, etc. In a nutshell, all of our hard work has given us many awesome companion, family and work dogs all rolled into one. The last 20 years I’ve always had sheperd, lab, etc. crosses of some sort and have always gotten them as puppies from the local paper or rescue society.

Fast forward to May of this year. Got a 7 week old puppy from a local rescue. She had 4 other siblings and the mom was only about a year or so old. I was NOT happy with how the mom was treating her puppies, and not happy that the foster mother was allowing the mother to treat them so terribly. Mom would constantly harrass them to play - but she played HARD and MEAN and would bite fairly hard. Even when the puppies started howling and cowering to her, she woud still continue to bite, play, etc. and she was relentless with them. My husband and I were constantly having to pull the mom off of the puppies and the foster mom didn’t even seem to notice - and the mom of the pups didn’t even care we were trying to pull her off of them, she’d just go right back at them. Sigh! Super wound up mom who just didn’t listen and you swear had ADHD. Hindsight, I should have probably walked away and found another litter. :no:

Anyways, we took the puppy ASAP at 7 weeks, as I didn’t want her around the mom any longer and picking up any bad behaviors. She was a sweet little thing and seemed super quiet and very cuddly.

Now, don’t get me wrong, she is a sweet dog. Loves to cuddle. Has learned things like sit, stay, and shake a paw on only or or two tries. No kidding! She’s as smart as a whip. My two big problems with her though are, one, she is an extremely high energy puppy. Her energy level is relentless and she acts more like a border collie or a jack russel terrier. All of the puppies I’ve had in the past have been very quiet and happy to just sleep most of the day. Even with her being outside with me all day doing chores, working horses, etc., she is still full of energy at the end of the day, and it gets tiresome for us.

And two, she will NOT stop chasing our cats, tormenting them, etc. We knew this might be a problem with how the mother treated her pups, and assumed our new little girl might pick up the same behavior and do it to our cats…and we definitely had many, MANY “board meetings” with her the first month she was here. She has never tried to physically hurt or bite them…although she has attempted to gently insert their heads into her mouth several times. :lol: It has become a 24/7 job to watch her in the house with them. As soon as I turn around, she’s got one cornered, stepping on top of them and gently holding them down or just plain pissing them off. They have scratched her so many times I can’t even keep track anymore, but that doesn’t phase her in the least. One of our cats is 14 years old and he’s just not physically able to defend himself anymore. Everything else she has learned so quickly, but she will not stop the behavior with the cats. And god forbid we should be outside and one of the cats is sitting in the middle of the yard. :rolleyes:

I am at the point in my life that I no longer desire any drama of any kind…and after four months of 24/7 of constant one on one with this puppy, she has me reduced to tears and screaming on almost a daily basis. :(:cry: It is to the point that my husband and I have started talking about giving her back to the rescue society.

Has anyone had a super charged wound up puppy who eventually turned into a quiet adult dog…or am I screwed? And, I am at my wits end on getting her to stop tormenting and chasing our cats…and believe me when I say I’ve tried just about everything. (I was in the pet store the other day and saw those electric shock dog collars and nearly bought one!) It is to the point now that our cats have resorted to hiding under the furniture and in our closet to sleep, etc. and that is just not fair to them - they were here first! :no:

#2

[QUOTE=Daventry;5835440]
Background: I have raised lots of puppies over the years. I have done extensive obedience classes for years, dog trials, etc., and my dogs have always had the best manners - no begging, hand signal commands, etc. and all of our dogs over the years have always lived with us in the house and all have learned to help me with chores, catching horses, etc. In a nutshell, all of our hard work has given us many awesome companion, family and work dogs all rolled into one. The last 20 years I’ve always had sheperd, lab, etc. crosses of some sort and have always gotten them as puppies from the local paper or rescue society.

Fast forward to May of this year. Got a 7 week old puppy from a local rescue. She had 4 other siblings and the mom was only about a year or so old. I was NOT happy with how the mom was treating her puppies, and not happy that the foster mother was allowing the mother to treat them so terribly. Mom would constantly harrass them to play - but she played HARD and MEAN and would bite fairly hard. Even when the puppies started howling and cowering to her, she woud still continue to bite, play, etc. and she was relentless with them. My husband and I were constantly having to pull the mom off of the puppies and the foster mom didn’t even seem to notice - and the mom of the pups didn’t even care we were trying to pull her off of them, she’d just go right back at them. Sigh! Super wound up mom who just didn’t listen and you swear had ADHD. Hindsight, I should have probably walked away and found another litter. :no:

Anyways, we took the puppy ASAP at 7 weeks, as I didn’t want her around the mom any longer and picking up any bad behaviors. She was a sweet little thing and seemed super quiet and very cuddly.

Now, don’t get me wrong, she is a sweet dog. Loves to cuddle. Has learned things like sit, stay, and shake a paw on only or or two tries. No kidding! She’s as smart as a whip. My two big problems with her though are, one, she is an extremely high energy puppy. Her energy level is relentless and she acts more like a border collie or a jack russel terrier. All of the puppies I’ve had in the past have been very quiet and happy to just sleep most of the day. Even with her being outside with me all day doing chores, working horses, etc., she is still full of energy at the end of the day, and it gets tiresome for us.

And two, she will NOT stop chasing our cats, tormenting them, etc. We knew this might be a problem with how the mother treated her pups, and assumed our new little girl might pick up the same behavior and do it to our cats…and we definitely had many, MANY “board meetings” with her the first month she was here. She has never tried to physically hurt or bite them…although she has attempted to gently insert their heads into her mouth several times. :lol: It has become a 24/7 job to watch her in the house with them. As soon as I turn around, she’s got one cornered, stepping on top of them and gently holding them down or just plain pissing them off. They have scratched her so many times I can’t even keep track anymore, but that doesn’t phase her in the least. One of our cats is 14 years old and he’s just not physically able to defend himself anymore. Everything else she has learned so quickly, but she will not stop the behavior with the cats. And god forbid we should be outside and one of the cats is sitting in the middle of the yard. :rolleyes:

I am at the point in my life that I no longer desire any drama of any kind…and after four months of 24/7 of constant one on one with this puppy, she has me reduced to tears and screaming on almost a daily basis. :(:cry: It is to the point that my husband and I have started talking about giving her back to the rescue society.

Has anyone had a super charged wound up puppy who eventually turned into a quiet adult dog…or am I screwed? And, I am at my wits end on getting her to stop tormenting and chasing our cats…and believe me when I say I’ve tried just about everything. (I was in the pet store the other day and saw those electric shock dog collars and nearly bought one!) It is to the point now that our cats have resorted to hiding under the furniture and in our closet to sleep, etc. and that is just not fair to them - they were here first! :no:[/QUOTE]

  1. What breed is she (best guess)?
  2. How old is she now - 6 months?
  3. How much exercize does she get? Simply being outside while you do chores doesn’t count.
  4. Are you doing crate training? How often are you working with her on obedience training?

Sounds like this little girl needs serious exercise. And a job - something to make her brain work as you mentioned how smart she is. Keep in mind: A Tired Dog is a Good Dog.

Yes, she will probably mellow out as she ages. She’s still very very young. But it will take more work from you and your family to tire her out and give her a positive outlet for her energy/boredom (think agility training vs. chasing the cats).

Can you work with a trainer?

Yes, you can return her but I’m sure it will be hard on you as you’ve already bonded. Plus it’s much harder to find a home for a wild teenage dog compared to a very young puppy. Most dogs are brought to shelters at 6-12 months due to these exact same issues (not a cuddly puppy any more, not a mellow dog yet, owners don’t know what to do to channel their energy).

She’s a teenager. A smart one with a lot of energy. She sounds like a ton of fun if you can find a fun outlet for her.

ps - please no screaming. It doesn’t work and only adds to everyone’s stress.

#3

Best guess is that she is some type of Shepherd cross and she is 5 months old. She was crate trained right from the first day we bought her and only spend time in there at night and if I had to leave the property, which is rare. If I say “kennel”, she goes right in and has no problems with it. She now sleeps on our bedroom couch at night and only stays in the crate if I leave the property…or as a punishment for chasing the cats.

She gets a TON of daily, regular and active exercise and I do obedience training with her regularly. If she is not going to settle down, I do not want to keep her as I do not have the time to invest in keeping her that active to get rid of her excessive energy…which is why we did not get a border collie or jack russell. :wink: The breeds with abundance of energy do not fit in our appeal to our family lifestyle.

I definitely wouldn’t call her wild, she listens well…except when it comes to the cats, so I think she would fit into another adopted home well…as long as they don’t have any cats. My main concern is how to stop her from tormenting them. If I can’t get that under control, she’s will have to go. :no:

#4

Although I wouldn’t advise it, one kill-or-cure for a bumptious cat-harassing puppy is a nasty tomcat. Trouble is, you might get back a dog who’s not just sadder and wiser, but one missing an eye, an ear, etc. It sounds like you’re already leaning toward returning the puppy. That might be the best thing for everyone; if you don’t have the ability/willingness/desire to deal with her particular challenges, the longer this drags on, the worse off everyone is - you’re stressed, the cats are stressed, and the puppy’s being held to an impossible standard (I know, some pups could take the ‘no kitty’ lesson in a day, but this clearly isn’t that pup) which is not doing her any good.

#5

It hasn’t just been one day. It’s been 120 straight days (4 months) of “leave the kitty alone” again and again each and every single day. I guess my biased view of this is that every single puppy we’ve had in the past has either completely ignored the cats, or gotten one good hurtful swat and learned to stay clear of them. As smart as this young dog is, she seems extremely dense with the cats…or just really, really wants to play with them. To me, 4 months just seems to be more than enough time for her to understand how the household works, especially when the cats have gotten angry enough to draw blood on her multiple times!

But if others have been able to find a light at the end of the tunnel, or most people have found this takes more time than 4-6 months, we’ll keep plugging along until we can get the issues worked out. My worry is that if it hasn’t resolved itself within the last 4 months, I worry that it will never change.

#6

Have you tried the vinegar spray to keep her from going after the cats? This usually stops any dog dead in their tracks. Mix 1 part white distilled vinegar with one part water a spray bottle. Tell her “leave it” and if she doesn’t listen nail her in the face with the spray. Rinse and repeat as necessary. And no it doesn’t burn and no it isn’t cruel. It is a tried and true training method used by thousands of folks out there. The smell knocks their socks off so to speak. I have sprayed myself in the face (with my eyes open) to make sure it doesn’t burn.

As for her energy level, she is what sounds like a large breed puppy that needs a job. I would start her on light rally training or possibly even light agility training to keep her focused. Since she is young too much jumping over stuff can hurt her but small little low jumps will keep her mind occupied. Running and playing doesn’t take brain power, training does and can be very tiring for a young dog.

#7

does she have another dog to play with?

#8

Didn’t you get the memo? Cats are fun toys that run when you chase them!

My Lab was pretty energetic as a pup, and now I’m looking at him passed out on the floor… as always. He has occasional spurts of energy but mostly just sleeps. We actually just tested him for hypothyroidism and all his blood work looks great, so he’s just super lazy.

Best of luck with your puppy though, hope it works out.

#9

It seems like the simpest way for everyone to chill out is to separate the dog from the cats. When she is not under your direct command, she needs to be in a “no cat zone” - if not her crate, then your bedroom or any area that keeps her apart. Then you can relax a little and prevent her from practicing undesirable behavior. When you have the time, do the aversion training with vinegar or something else. It sounds like she is way too young and foolish to have the run of the house when she doesnt have your undivided attention.

At worst, maybe you could manage her as a “barn dog”. Set up a dog house and kennel run where she can stay when not with you. Not ideal, but may be what it takes for you to manage with her for now. If you return her to the rescue for having the “wrong” type of personality she will likely be euthanised if they do that, or warehoused if they don’t.

She will quiet down, but may never be a quiet, lay-by-the-fire dog. But I think you can find a way to manage her and enjoy her.

#10

How much time does this puppy play with other dogs? Is it just her and the cats?
I do think that some dogs can’t live with cats, at least not in a household that isn’t on top of management all of the time. However, this doesn’t sound like she is trying to prey on the cats as much as just play with them.
If you want to keep the dog, I would try having a professional observe the situation and see what he or she would recommend. I know you are an experienced dog owner, but most of us only get to know what works with a few dogs that we own. A professional works with many dogs and so their experience is much wider than the most people’s, even people who have owned and trained several dogs.
Keeping her may require lifestyle adjustments, and I don’t know how open to that you are. A high energy puppy with a strong play drive probably needs to play with other dogs and additional time in structured training with a play reward. Puppies in general are high energy, though. I have one who is fairly laid back and fairly active through the day, but he doesn’t settle down until well into the evening-like around 9 pm. He is nowhere near what I would call a high energy puppy. Your puppy will probably calm down with time, but puppies-esp. large breeds-mature slowly, as you probably know. Truly high energy individuals may always be pretty high energy.
If you are not willing to make changes, then perhaps the rescue could find her a higher-energy home before she is much older. If you just wait without making significant changes, then she will be that much older and hence more difficult to re-home. Puppies are much easier to find homes for than adult (or even adolescent dogs).
So bottom-line: I would say make a decision-either commit to keeping her even if it means additional stress and general craziness as well as some lifestyle changes, or contact the rescue about giving her back. I wouldn’t want to just give it a few more months and let her bond more to you and your husband and then overturn her life as an adolescent by giving her back. If you keep her, then keep her with everything it entails.

#11

Thanks for all of the great advice. I’m going to give the vinegar spray a try. I’ve gotten lots of PMs from people who’ve said their puppies eventually left the cats alone. And I will say she definitely has gotten better about the cats over the last four months…but still a ways to go yet :wink: And definitely, she doesn’t seem to want to harm them, but merely wants someone to play with. So pathetic to watch my 14 year old cat curled up on the bed and witness our 50 lb. puppy try and step on his head and throw a toy down in front of him. :lol: You gotta laugh, but I feel so darn sorry for the cats.

I do truly love the dog, and she has an amazing instinct with the horses…which is something they either have or they don’t…so giving her back is a last resort.

PICT0007.JPG

#12

Who couldn’t love that face?!

If you don’t want her, I’d be happy to relieve you of her. No kitties here, only a mischievous Border Collie to play with!

#13

Well, I hate to be the ‘rainer of cold hard truth’ but taking the pup away from her dam was the ABSOLUTELY worst thing you could’ve done. I’ve raised many litters of puppies and the dams will ALWAYS initiate this kind of play, just to teach the puppy to submit. They will start with the alpha puppy, and worry, bite, shake, roll, snap, growl; you name it until the puppy finally gives in. The dam will do that over and over until that puppy learns Momma is BOSS and must be honored. When the alpha pup has learned that lesson, she’ll move on to the next and the next.

Your girl is an alpha bitch in training and she believes she’s invincible. You have the tools to teach her to respect you as a pack leader, but I doubt she will ever be a quiet ‘easy’ dog. She could however, be the best dog you ever own because she will THINK for herself.

If you do decide to rehome her, I’d reach out to search and rescue groups, at least those that use mixed breed dogs.

#14

I don’t buy the ‘alpha’ story. This is a dog with LOTS of energy and play drive. Normal for HER, and likely absolutely nothing to do with being taken home at 7 weeks. There is no validity to trying to be “alpha” to the dog in this situation.

My feeling would be that the pup shouldn’t get any more opportunities to play with kitties. Crates, tethers, fenced in doggie play yards, indoor arenas or whatever can be used to your advantage. It’s clearly really rewarding for her to play with them - so you need to stop letting her reward herself.

Severe punishment simply isn’t an option for me. It makes dogs neurotic, and wouldn’t prevent her from seeking out the cats when ‘mom and the vinegar, or mom and the shock collar’ etc weren’t around.

I would work a LOT on basic obedience exercises and tricks using as powerful rewards (that aren’t the cats…) as you can find. Tug a war, fetching, running around with her briefly, treats, whatever. Practice first without kitties, then ON leash with kitties way in the distance - at whatever distance you can work without her losing her mind - then gradually, slowly, day by day, reduce that distance until she can continue working for you in the kitties presence. Simply telling her ‘not to do that’ isn’t sufficient. You will have better success by teaching exactly what you want her TO DO instead.

If she is unable to focus on you, make the exercise easier again until she is successful. Then challenge her again with closer distance, and higher value rewards. Impulse control IS possible to train, but it can be very, very difficult with some dogs. This could take a LOT of work, but I think its doable.

#15

MJMVET said:Simply telling her ‘not to do that’ isn’t sufficient. You will have better success by teaching exactly what you want her TO DO instead.

yep. Install a good recall…one where she is 1/2 back to you before she realizes she left the cats to do it. Every dog can learn this, I’ve had 3 of them who did. One of which was a really independent dog…did the cost/benefit for every situation.

Second, teach her zen…she must simply ignore the kitties for whatever it is you want. Make her start working for her food and her treats. Work for going out, or playing with toys. Everything you and I have, we work for one way or another. She needs to also.

Another thing you might start is a relaxation protocol…which would be handy to teach her to relax around the cats.

#16

I am seeing some real improvements in a young hyper GSD I have, in terms of her focus and her over enthusiasm with well, everything- but it has taken a long time- she is now 1 yr and 7 months old! I am assured this is normal as they take a long time to grow up. Your dog def looks like she has GSD in her. Like yours mine gets exercised, trained and learns very easily- but she can’t HELP herself in so many situations!

#17

I highly recommend the book “Good Owners, Great Dogs” by Brian Kilcommons. It literally saved my sanity when I purchased my first Siberian puppy. He was a show dog and I had a thirteen month old baby so I was in serious need of help. He was a very energetic but well behaved boy thanks to that book.
We recently adopted a six month old border collie. She is doing great but I constantly refer to that book as she is at that pain in the butt stage. Although its been three weeks we are happy with her progress.
Hoping things become easier for both of you. She is a pretty girl with a sweet face.

#18

I don’t consider a dog “made” till they are 3 yrs old.

5 mos? Pre-teen.

I think you are lucky that you had such well-behaved pups…a dog with a strong prey drive will just get excited by a swat from a cat…not deterred.

Breeds like heelers, JRTs, hounds, bull terriers, pits etc. just keep coming back for more.

My heeler will STILL chase the cat(s), although never actually gets them. U think it’s more of a dominance thing. But she was raised to a a chorus of “leave the cat alone!”

Perhaps you need to be abit more forceful with your corrections? I know the trend these days is to be all lovey and stuff, but some dogs just don’t get that.

Also, I agree that it might be best to separate dogs & cats for another few months…if you have a gate to part of the house the cats can easily jump over it gives them a place to go and rest.

Years ago I had a 5 mos Bull Terrier puppy kill one of my cats…she had been declawed (not by me) and I was suddenly stuck at work doing a 16 hr shift. Came home and the poor cat was dead!!

I owned this dog for another 8 yrs and she was alone with cats often for the rest of her life and this never happened again, but she was young, bad situation, cat couldn’t get away…it was pretty horrific…

#19

we’re still telling our 18 month old Airedale to stop chasing the cat. :lol: To be fair, our cat is a criminal mastermind and instigates trouble… and about half the time now, the dog looks at him and decides he isn’t worth it. And when she DOES go after him, she just chases him until he ‘goes to ground’ - she doesn’t try to put her mouth on him any more.

I think some dogs are just dense about cats. Our dog is otherwise perfect and delightful (no really! She is friendly and calm when meeting other people and dogs, knows come/sit/down/stay/shake/drop it/leave it/wait, etc, and is a wonderful companion. She is also crate trained.)

We solved the problem with a baby gate on the landing of the stairs. The cat can “get away” if he needs to (by jumping the gate), and the dog can’t follow (she is big and athletic enough to clear the gate, but she doesn’t know it). The cat’s litter box, water, and food, are in the “no puppy” zone. Everyone is pretty happy with this arrangement - if the cat is in the mood to play tag, he can come up here, and otherwise he can go off and do whatever cats do without being chased. Slowly but surely, the Airedale’s interest in the cat is waning.

I briefly attempted to carry treats around, and call the puppy away from the cat, and give her a treat when she listened. You could try it. My dog figured it out, and ended up trying to leap on the cat and then race over to me for a treat - not the desired result! When I call her away from the cat now, she gets praised and fussed over for leaving the cat alone.

Anyway, just some ideas. I hope you’re able to work something out that works for everyone. Good luck!

#20

We have a purebred lab who was a terrible cat chaser and an all around fruit loop, no matter the amount of energy he expended outside.

He’s six now, leaves cats alone, and is afraid of our new ferrets (which he would have eaten in a heatbeat as a young dog).

Hopefully there’s a light at the end of your tunnel. It took a couple years before ours grew up, but he was a super high energy puppy and made the BCs I used to dogsit look like lazy pugs.

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