What does pneumabort vaccine do?
Rubi, the mare wh. Got salmonella and the foundered is now 7 months along. I gave her the pneumabort shot today which made me wonder what it does.
Does everyone give it at 5,7, and 9 months? Or can it be skippEd?
Pneumabort is the Rhino vacine. It protects against equine rhino-pneumonitis and abortion in pregnant mares. You can give it at 5,7, and 9 months, or 3,5,7 months I have been told. You could skip it I suppose, but you would be unneccesarily risking abortion. I think the cost of all 3 shots was $100 for me. Seems silly to risk losing a foal for $100
I won’t skip it, just wondering of you could.
How does a horse get rhino? Is it possible on a closed personal farm?
pneumabort-k is the fort dodge HSV-1 vaccine. HSV-1 is one serotype for Herpes. THe Rhino is the cold with snot. If a mare gets the snot cold then she will likely abort. So, to prevent her getting it you booster the mares poor immune system with the vaccine every 2 months starting 5 months. If you miss it, no problem, because she is still in foal. However if you give the $15 dollar shot it does prevent it. Now, I would never use the Fort Dodge vaccine for this, as it has been know to cause spontaneous abortions. SO, always get the Intervet Prodigy for this purpose. THey have had 0 cases of spontaneous abortions. It is a little more expensive which is why vets don’t carry it, but it is only $15 at Tractor Supply company, so no big deal. At 10 months I give the Prestige V which has all of my spring vaccines in it. This is good for the foal and momma. I hope that helps.
Tim
From a google search:
Rhinopneumonitis (or rhino) in horses is an inflammation of the mucosa of the nasal cavities and the lungs caused by the equine herpes virus. This virus lives only in horses and has several distinct types, which can cause a whole range of illnesses (respiratory, neurologic, reproductive, neonatal). Respiratory disease is the most common by far.
Almost all adult horses are infected with the equine herpes virus as a consequence of natural exposure during their first months of their life. The respiratory form of rhinopneumonitis rarely causes severe disease in adult horses. Following infection, the virus lives in hibernation in the lymph nodes of the respiratory system, and the horse is infected for the remainder of his life. The immune system keeps these herpes viruses in check, so the immune system plays a very important role in determining whether infected horses exhibit symptoms of disease or not.
If the horse’s immune system is compromised in the future by some other disease or problem or by the use of immunosuppressive medications (such as heavy doses of steroids), the virus may escape confinement by the immune system, enter the bloodstream, return to the respiratory lining, and cause further signs of respiratory infection or fever. This ability of the rhinopneumonitis virus to cause recurrent signs of disease is referred to as “viral recrudescence” (i.e., essentially ‘rebirth’ of the symptoms). No other virus in the horse is capable of latency and relapse in such a manner. In this regard, it is similar to the human herpes simplex virus that causes “cold sore” lesions on the lips of infected people. It just hangs out until your horse is stressed and then comes out.
Abortion
The equine rhinopneumonitis virus is also an important cause of abortion in brood mares. The abortion hardly causes any residual stress or symptoms in the mare, and the foal that is aborted (“slips”) looks like a well-developed healthy fetus. Brood mares are routinely vaccinated against rhinopneumonitis throughout pregnancy to minimize the risk of abortion attributed to infection by this virus. Large broodmare farms are plagued with this problem, because new strains (“mutants”) arise and take the horse’s immune system by surprise.
Sometimes, rhinopneumonitis viral attack on the developing foal during pregnancy fails to kill the foal and cause an abortion. In those cases, the foal may be born alive after an appropriate length of gestation (pregnancy) but has been compromised by the virus. These foals are unthrifty at birth as a result of viral damage to the liver and lungs, and they usually die.
Less commonly, the rhinopneumonitis virus causes neurological symptoms in affected horses. In these cases, the virus typically attacks the spinal cord and causes weakness, incoordination (ataxia) and collapse. Often, the resulting inflammation in the spinal cord also leads to paralysis of the bladder and cystitis in affected horses.
What to Watch For
The most common symptom is a mild respiratory disease that lasts for several days.
•Fever. During the febrile stage, some horses may lose interest in eating, and act lethargic. The nasal membranes and eyes look reddened, and the eyes tear.
•Mild and intermittent coughing
•Nasal discharge
•Brief episode of fever that quickly passes.
•Hacking cough that is non-productive
•Enlarged lymph nodes in the neck
•Stocking up and heat. Another common feature of rhinopneumonitis is some stocking up and heat in the lower legs. This is believed to be incited by an immune reaction to the virus in the blood vessels.
Vaccination
Veterinarians in the United States commonly undertake vaccination of horses against the equine herpes viruses (Subtypes EHV-1 and EHV-4). As a rule, vaccines against any of the herpes viruses are not very effective because herpes viruses live in the horse and befuddle the immune system.
Vaccines are probably most important to protect pregnant mares against viral abortion. For best protection against abortion, it is necessary that the pregnant mare is vaccinated at least three times during the gestation (typically at months 5, 7 and 9). Using the rhinopneumonitis vaccine to prevent respiratory disease in young horses requires that it be administered every 2 to 3 months.
The use of rhinopneumonitis vaccine once yearly, as a part of an annual vaccination program, is probably offering minimal protection from a serious challenge. It might be all you need if your horse lives in relative isolation, but if you’re moving around, you ought to get him vaccinated 3-4 times per year. Unfortunately, vaccines that are currently available against rhinopneumonitis do not offer any protection against the neurological form of this disease.
The latest recommendation is 3,5,7 and 9 months. I did it last time the mare was pregnant JUST to be sure. It’s too much time and effort to risk.
I didn’t know my mare was in foal last year, so she missed any early shots. Found out in early June & she foaled July 31. She got 2 rhino shots 1 month apart - Pneumabort the first time (vet apparently missed me saying she did not have good reactions to that vaccine - yes, we had words about it) and Prodigy the 2nd with the other pre-foaling shots that actually ended up being NOT 30 days out as she foaled 2 weeks early…
Just a couple of notes here. Prodigy and Pneumabort K are both killed virus vaccines - hence the reason they are used in pregnant mares. If you miss a vaccine, just give it at the time you remember it and follow with the next vaccination 2 months later. The purpose of the 5,7,9 month vaccine is that the efficacy of the vaccine is relatively short lived - about 2 months :). If your mare goes longer than 11 months, it is recommended to go ahead and “boost” at 11 months, as well. So, following it a month later was a bit of overkill, Kinsella ;).
RyTimMick, I would be curious to see the research supporting that Prodigy is less likely to cause spontaneous abortion over Pneumabort K. I have not seen any that support or refute that statement, although we do see breeders who have a preference for one or the other of the vaccines.
While the vaccines help to minimize the risk of abortion should the mare be exposed, no vaccine is 100% effective :(. It is a vaccine we strongly encourage mare owners to use and if you live in a “hot spot” where they are seeing a higher than normal incidence of the disease, vaccinate at 3, 5, 7 and 9 months.
Good luck!
What is the general consensus on Rhinomume? It was recommended to me by R&R over the killed vaccines.
[QUOTE=RyTimMick;5370065]
pneumabort-k is the fort dodge HSV-1 vaccine. HSV-1 is one serotype for Herpes. THe Rhino is the cold with snot. If a mare gets the snot cold then she will likely abort. So, to prevent her getting it you booster the mares poor immune system with the vaccine every 2 months starting 5 months. If you miss it, no problem, because she is still in foal. However if you give the $15 dollar shot it does prevent it. Now, I would never use the Fort Dodge vaccine for this, as it has been know to cause spontaneous abortions. SO, always get the Intervet Prodigy for this purpose. THey have had 0 cases of spontaneous abortions. It is a little more expensive which is why vets don’t carry it, but it is only $15 at Tractor Supply company, so no big deal. At 10 months I give the Prestige V which has all of my spring vaccines in it. This is good for the foal and momma. I hope that helps.
Tim[/QUOTE]
Some clinics do carry the Prodigy. In fact, that is all we carry b/c of so many issues we had with the Fort Dodge product. In our practice we didn’t have any reports of abortion after using the Fort Dodge vaccine, but we had multiple reports of severe vaccine reactions, including in several of my own mares. I stopped using it at that point and went to the Prodigy a few years ago. I’ve had no vaccine reactions and our clients haven’t reported any either. I don’t know what the problem was, but when I have a pregnant mare swell up, go off feed and run a fever after using the vaccine (more than once) then it makes me a little nervous.
I personally would never skip giving rhino vaccines, mostly b/c I’ve seen what a rhino storm can do to a farm. Many here will disagree with this, but I also don’t truly believe there is such a thing as a closed farm. You would have to never haul a horse to a clinic, never have a farrier visit your farm after coming from another farm, never have a vet come after visiting another farm, never have other horse owners visit your farm, etc.
I use Prodigy to avoid vaccine reactions. The Ft Dodge product frequently caused problems. No problems since I switched brands.
ditto
Hi Kathy,
I wouldn’t go on here saying this unless I had first hand knowledge of the problem. If was first when I was working at a breeding farm that had 7 mares pregnant. They had started 2 of the mares of intervet because the store had run out of one and so they used Intervet on 2 and FD on the other five. Next morning, 5 dead foals in the field at 9 months. Next time was Friend with with pregnant mares, this time both with FD, but only one dead foal 1 day after the 9 month shot. After this I started asking around. It turned out, after talking to 30 cases of spontaneous abortions, they were all FD. So being that I sold to the Vet world I expanded my granted “non-scientific” research to all vaccine distributors and asked if they had problems from their vets with this. All of the reps that sold both had at one time or another a complaint from a vet about Neumabort-k. So, I went to the source and asked the FD rep, whats up. They stated that the complaint of spontaneous abortions were rare, and not documented as being caused by their vaccine. I went to the intervet rep, and they said they have “0” known cases of this, and they are far larger then FD world wide. So, based on the inflammatory response noted by many on this board, I refuse to use it. I use the HSV-1,HSV-4, Flu for my 5 month (fall vaccine) then follow up with Prodigy for 7 and 9 months. I administer Prestige V for my 10 month to help booster Ab in their milk. This has worked with me, and no spontaneous abortions.
Tim
You guys are scaring me re the pneumabort! We have used it for the last ten years with no issues whatsoever (3,5,7,9 months) but it seems like so many people have had bad experiences?
[QUOTE=ponygirl;5370517]
What is the general consensus on Rhinomume? It was recommended to me by R&R over the killed vaccines.[/QUOTE]
Our vet said that either Rhinomune given every other month OR the Pneumobort at 3, 5, 7 & 9 months are both acceptable and in his opinion effective. He said it was just a matter of personal preference.
I was told 5,7 & 9 for the Rhinomume and is what I’ve done.
Whoa! I didn’t say you would ;). BUT (and a BIG but), one of the issues we see (think the West Nile Vaccine, for example) is that people come on and give anecdotal examples of things that have gone wrong, with absolutely no scientific or documented support to determine exactly what has gone wrong, and scare off people from doing what needs to be done to protect their animals. Frustrating to say the least! And, often there is some pathogen that has gone through that because no necropsy was done, the assumption is made that it’s the vaccine, especially if the vaccine was given within a month of the incident :(. What is REALLY frustrating, is in the West Nile controversy, the guy who put up the information that scared off so many people, he didn’t do a necropsy on ANY of the animals that aborted, claimed it was due to the vaccine and in reality, it was more likely that something such as rhino went through the herd. But, the rumor went viral and unfortunately, a lot of horses went unvaccinated and suffered for it.
If was first when I was working at a breeding farm that had 7 mares pregnant. They had started 2 of the mares of intervet because the store had run out of one and so they used Intervet on 2 and FD on the other five. Next morning, 5 dead foals in the field at 9 months. Next time was Friend with with pregnant mares, this time both with FD, but only one dead foal 1 day after the 9 month shot. After this I started asking around. It turned out, after talking to 30 cases of spontaneous abortions, they were all FD. So being that I sold the the Vet world I expanded my granted “non-scientific” research to all vaccine distributors and asked if they had problems from their vets with this. All of the reps that sold both had at one time or another a complaint from a vet about Neumabort-k. So, I went to the source and asked the FD rep, whats up. They stated that the complaint of spontaneous abortions were rare, and not documented as being caused by their vaccine. I went to the intervet rep, and they said they have “0” known cases of this, and they are far larger then FD world wide. So, based on the inflammatory response noted by many on this board, I refuse to use it. I use the HSV-1,HSV-4, Flu for my 5 month (fall vaccine) then follow up with Prodigy for 7 and 9 months. I administer Prestige V for my 10 month to help booster Ab in their milk. This has worked with me, and no spontaneous abortions.
Tim
Okay, but my question would be is was a necropsy done? Typically, we will see reactions to various vaccines, but more often, it’s the carrying agent for the vaccine. Any type of injection, even sterile water, can cause a sufficient reaction in a pregnant mare to cause the mare to abort. Sad but true. Frustrating, as well. I have had similar responses as Hillside. Site reactions that are significant enough that I change the particular vaccine I’m using to one that I get less of a reaction to. Indeed, I break up the vaccines I give and don’t give the 7 ways for example, but give a four way and then different vaccines them over a series of a week, rather than all at once. That typically results in either lower site reactions or none at all. Yeah…it’s easier to hit them all at once especially when dealing with large numbers of animals, however stressing the system on any animal, but in particular, broodmares, is never a good thing 
And, FWIW, the last time I used Prodigy, I ended up with HUGE site reactions on all the mares - not just one but every single one of the girls. I switched back to Pneumabort K and while I still had some site reactions, it wasn’t to the degree I had with the Prodigy. And, to date, I’ve never had an abortion that I could attribute to either vaccine, thankfully.
I do think that whenever there is an abortion, mare owners look for something to “blame” it on. We typically want an answer. I know I do!!! But, more often than not, when a necropsy is done, the results show nothing <sigh>. Consequently, we as horse owners, will look for anything unusual that was done within a window of time - whether it is truly the culprit or not!
I will also say that vaccinations and vaccine companies are NOT infallible!!! Mistakes can be and are made! Indeed, a very good friend of ours received a booster tetanus vaccine a few years back and was vaccinated with “hot” virus! Yup…you got it! She ended up with a full blown case of the disease, spent a couple months in the hospital, lost some of her vision, etc. Not cool. The kicker? Vaccine companies cannot be sued! Years ago they went to the federal government and strong armed them into protecting them to insure that they would continue manufacturing vaccines. I don’t know if the law applies to animal vaccines, but it does to human. There, that’s my little bit of trivial information for the day!
Edited to add that my grammar is AWFUL today. But, too busy to go through and re-edit this :). Sorry…you guys will just have to deal with it and recognize that I’m not a grammar Nazi!!!
That was the vet’s call Kathy - I just told him to do whatever he thought needed to be done (except NOT with Pneumabort). It could have been right at the 2 month mark, but that would be pushing it.
I know pneumabort causes a reaction in my mare, so I do not use it. And I stand corrected - it was Rhinomune that she got, not Prodigy.
[QUOTE=Donella;5370647]
You guys are scaring me re the pneumabort! We have used it for the last ten years with no issues whatsoever (3,5,7,9 months) but it seems like so many people have had bad experiences?[/QUOTE]
^This is why I become very concerned when anecdotal experiences are put up without anything to verify it. Donella, you are CONSIDERABLY more likely to lose a pregnancy to Rhino than you are to lose a pregnancy because of a vaccine reaction. Vaccinate.
Also wanted to add and agree with what Hillside said in that I too don’t believe that anyone truly has a closed farm. If you have birds or wild animals that come onto your property, if you have vets that come onto your property or if you have people that come and go, you have the potential of introducing a pathogen.
My evidence is just that, anecdotal. I have warned others about not vaccinating their mares. The odds are still better using FD then not, but we have other options.
A necropsy was done on some of the aborted foals, and it was “Determined” to HSV induced. This is ofcourse makes little sense unless the vaccine compromised the mares in some way. Either which way, I agree with you that we rarely get any real information, but when all of these abortions occured within 24 hours post injection, at the 9month shot (i don’t understand this unless it was a reaction build up by the third injection) 100% Fort Dodge. I use Fort Dodge for other vaccines, but not this one.
Also, it is belief by the Fort Dodge marketing machine that immunity is directly related the level of reaction. All science disproves this, because the wrong reaction Type 1 or Type 2 can actually have a detrimental effect on immunity. So fwiw
Tim
