Pony breeders - what's your opinion on test breeding a 2-year-old stallion?

[Daventry]

I should state that I’ve always been against breeding 2-year-old stallions - it’s just my personal opinion…but I know that many people do.

That being said, I have a coming 2-year-old Section B colt that has just matured completely different than any other ponies we’ve ever had. Normally, my rule of thumb is to hide my yearlings at the back of the property until they are three ;), but this guy was so gorgeous all year that we went ahead and showed him again this year…very successfully.

Despite oodles of long time breeders telling me I am crazy to offer him for sale and this is “the one” I should be keeping, I went ahead and put him up for sale at a very reasonable price. He was the Canadian National Champion Section B colt last year and won everything at the Sport Pony shows this year. This is the same colt that I posted photos of last fall scratching himself with a stick…he is beyond smart! :yes: http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=265563

Everywhere we take him, people seem to be drawn to him, but the most frustrating part is that he is still for sale. We’ve had a total of four deals fall through - one lost a job, one couldn’t get a personal loan…even though we said we’d take payments, one ended up losing a bunch of investments and had to back out, etc, etc. So now we’re wondering if it’s just fate and he should be staying here with us. I’ve always wanted a buckskin sabino, it’s just too bad he’s greying out.

If that does happen, now I’m contemplating test breeding him with two mares in the spring. Most of the shows we attended this year didn’t have a single photographer, and the one that did have a photographer wasn’t great, so it’s hard to show how mature he actually looks this year…so you’ll just have to take my word for it What do other breeders think about test breeding a 2-year-old stallion?

[rideagoldenpony]

I have, I would and will be doing it again in the spring.

Admittedly, I feel this is the best yearling I’ve ever owned. He also comes from an extremely proven family, so I don’t feel like I’m taking much of a risk.

It’s something that I think a lot more pony breeders do than sport horse breeders.

But there you have my position on the subject.

[Daventry]

@rideagoldenpony;5899305

It’s something that I think a lot more pony breeders do than sport horse breeders.

I agree, and I think that’s why I am normally not found of breeding 2-year-olds, as I was originally a warmblood breeder. But I have to say, that on the whole, the maturity level of a 2-year-old warmblood as compared to a 2-year-old pony is very different! Often, the 2 and 3 year old warmblood stallions have lots of development and growth to do yet, while I find the purebred Section B Welsh Ponies tend to be done growing by the age of 2.

I think your new guy will be a fabulous addition to your program.

[VirginiaBred]

Otteridge Foxtrot bred a couple of mares at age two and it worked out just fine.

[WindyIsles]

I have no problem with it. I’ve done it.

Up until recently (this year or so) stallions in Ireland were presented at two for Inspection (now they have changed it till 3 because of height issues among other things). If they passed they were considered stallions and many started breeding once approved at 2.

[crownridgefarms]

[QUOTE=rideagoldenpony;5899305]
I have, I would and will be doing it again in the spring.

Admittedly, I feel this is the best yearling I’ve ever owned. He also comes from an extremely proven family, so I don’t feel like I’m taking much of a risk.

It’s something that I think a lot more pony breeders do than sport horse breeders.

But there you have my position on the subject. :D[/QUOTE]

Gretchen, I am openly jealous of you owning this amazing boy. haha

[2tempe]

Rideagoldenpony: Hey can you put your young stallion in a box w/ a bow and send him to me??? As I’m currently in the pony fantasizing phase, I must have one just like this.

Wonder how he’d cross w/ a lovely 16.2 hand oldenburg mare…

[Sugarbrook]

LOL, Can’t say I approved this,(just meaning what happened to us) but Blue Who (Hootie) got his first mare pregnant when he was 14 months old. Sage breeder that I am, we had no clue until little Emma (thank goodness she was 4) bagged up and foaled the next day after checking on her amazing weight gain at the new farm. The foal, named “Who Knew” has gone on to be a great show pony.

So, hummmm…would I do it…PERHAPS!!! Sure never hurt Hooties brain, or anything else!!:lol:

[Dressage_Diva333]

Yep, I’m planning on it with my coming two year old as well Unless something drastic changes between now and then, he’s maturing SO nicely… and I think I’m going to give it a shot. I’ve never had a youngster AI trained so young. All the ones I’ve started AI with have been 4+. Any experience with that?

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2338862078584&l=3f3bcfb754

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2338854518395&l=c59ffa00a3

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2338853598372&l=a27088cce3

[TrueColours]

My intention is to test breed our coming 2 year old “Four Feet of Snow” colt in 2012 as well

One mare isnt due until August so it will give him a perfect opportunity to mature and develop some more

And I also have no problem in teaching him to collect on the phantom and sending that semen out as well to non TB mare clients

Of course this may all change if I dont like how he is developing come spring, but if I like what I am seeing, yes - he will breed a few mares as well

Your youngster is drop dead stunning too BTW …

[Ladybug_Hill]

I would not jump a phantom with a 2 year old and would not ship just because the mental/sexual maturity and sperm count may still be issues at a young 2. But live covering a mare or two of your own seems perfectly acceptable. Having said that though I would make sure he is turned out with bred mares after that to “put him back in his place”. I think the caveat to breeding a 2 year old is that it might rock his world and turn him into a sex monster! LOL Putting him back in a social group that will remind him that he is just a lowly 2 year old colt might abate that behavior.

[quicksilverponies]

I test bred Adagio at age 2 with very good results and he is still a puppy dog to handle. I also bred my buckskin stallion at 2 and the resulting foal is lovely and the stallion was not affected adversely as far as I can tell. I would do it again with no reservations.

[Daventry]

@Ladybug Hill;5900707

Having said that though I would make sure he is turned out with bred mares after that to “put him back in his place”. I think the caveat to breeding a 2 year old is that it might rock his world and turn him into a sex monster! LOL Putting him back in a social group that will remind him that he is just a lowly 2 year old colt might abate that behavior.

Definitely! He lives in a pasture with his dad right now and a pregnant mare, so he has been well socialized and is a complete gentleman as a result.

Thanks for all of the advice guys. Much appreciated!

[LivviesMom]

Daventry and rideagolden pony - feel free to use my pony mare as a test mare lol… LOVELY boys!

[rideagoldenpony]

Thanks all for the nice words about my boy!

He’s been gone for a MONTH and I’m pining for him. I sent him with a friend out to show in Tulsa at the Central Nationals/Tulsa State Fair (he was reserve Supreme Champion! woo!), but MAN, I have missed him soooooo much. The barn is SO empty without him. He comes home this next Saturday. CAN’T WAIT!!!

[hluing]

Perhaps also my bias as a reformed warmblood breeder, but no, I would never do this. I would not breed a stallion until he is approved. If he were not approved, I would geld him. That is why Burberry was not bred till he was four. I think it is an added bonus to have them going well under saddle before introducing them to “the dark side”…lol.

[smokygirl]

Well if some had to wait til the stallion was “approved” it would be a very long wait, since many breed animals that are breeds, and don’t do approvals.

[Daventry]

@hluing;5908491

I would not breed a stallion until he is approved. If he were not approved, I would geld him. That is why Burberry was not bred till he was four. I think it is an added bonus to have them going well under saddle before introducing them to “the dark side”…lol.

Thanks for your opinion, but we breed strictly hunter ponies…and a few Welsh Ponies, so this concept doesn’t apply to us. I just can’t justify wasting the money to get one of our stallions approved ISR/Oldenburg, Weser-Ems, etc. when it will never benefit ourselves or our mare owners - not saying it doesn’t benefit others who are focused on a sport pony or dressage pony program, it just doesn’t benefit our program.

For example, our stallion Penrhyn Sporting Chance is one of the more famous pony hunter stallions out there and we have no problems getting breedings to him each year. Actually, I turn away a lot of people each year as I don’t want to flood the market with babies. He isn’t approved anything…he just eventually proved himself as a sire. So because he isn’t approved by a registry, he should be gelded? Getting him approved with a sport pony registry is only going to drain my pocket book and I doubt we’d get even one extra breeding out of it. As well, most of the reputable sport pony registries will not approve anything under 13 HH…so it’s a moot point. I’ll never have a pony hunter stallion over 13 HH, as we just end up losing too many Mare Owners.

I can list a ton of highly successful pony stallions - all hunter pony stallions - who are not approved anything, but fill their mare books each year and have highly successful offspring competing in the ring. Now, in talking about a young warmblood stallion getting approval first, I totally agree. But with pony stallions, particularly hunter pony stallions or Welsh Pony stallions…whole different ball game.

[rideagoldenpony]

Heather – while I always respect your opinion, for purebred Welsh breeders or hunter pony breeders, inspections etc are pretty irrelevant, and not something anyone aspires to, and definitely not criteria for whether or not something is stallion material.

[smokygirl]

[QUOTE=rideagoldenpony;5908561]
Heather – while I always respect your opinion, for purebred Welsh breeders or hunter pony breeders, inspections etc are pretty irrelevant, and not something anyone aspires to, and definitely not criteria for whether or not something is stallion material.[/QUOTE]

Just curious, as I know Mardi has been approved for breeding (Weser-Ems, right?), do you think that was “worth it” for the breedings that come from him being approved? Would you consider (or are you) getting your younger stallions approved?

I’m curious as I know a lot of people who have considered taking mares/stallions to approvals, and after figuring in the costs and such, decided against it, as it’s not a requirement of the breed, and the benefits weren’t outweighed (in there opinion) by the downside.