With respect to horses changes identities, won’t the mandatory microchips fix that? Even if it is only checked randomly should help. Also, people could check during PPEs for horses already registered with usef.
Someone on another board had a good point. Won’t the serious cheaters just swap out the microchip? Those that are determined enough always find a way around the rules.
[QUOTE=findeight;7818842]
The logical place to start is simply the procedure. No shoe pulling and maybe look at a more modern measurement device, there must be something out there.[/QUOTE]
Zero dog in the pony height fight, but I’d think there are a lot more accurate measures of height out there now than the same wooden stick people have been using for centuries. If you’re measuring on a level surface, have something next to it, like a wall, that’s demarcated with heights, and use a laser level that you can buy at Home Depot for under $50 to sight heights. You’d get an accurate height with something that’s not going to freak the pony out waving it around over top of it.
My point is simply that measurements fluctuate. Even when taken with exacting measurements, living animals change over time. Where the difference of cms can put you over-- things are extremely difficult because heights naturally fluctuate by that amount even without affirmative cheating.
[QUOTE=LovesHorses;7823765]
Someone on another board had a good point. Won’t the serious cheaters just swap out the microchip? Those that are determined enough always find a way around the rules.[/QUOTE]
Maybe. But we don’t forget about having laws or rules because somebody might eventually break them. That’s a poor argument against it…you think we should toss the drug rules because some break them?
Apparently, it’s not that simple to remove a chip without leaving an easy to find mark, esoecially if it migrated from the insertion site-as it seems they do.
I don’t understand removing a chip to be easy. Possible, sure… But not as easy as sending in a new registration to USEF. Not by a longshot.
Not as time-consuming or expensive as you think. At POA shows, every pony under 6 must be measured, and at major events it’s not that massive of an undertaking. Assume that 2 measuring stewards are available on Friday when the ponies are shipping in. Spend no more than 5 minutes per pony. Any that don’t measure in that time must return to be re-measured. If you need to get a trim or longe for a bit or ride them down some because they’re too excited to stand still, do that and then go back for the second measurement. If you don’t pass the second time, you’re out.
Not that many ponies will need the second measure. The time limit is pretty key, the steward can’t spend 20minutes on every pony. If your pony is a hard measure, go early and leave some time to get to the farrier if necessary. It can be done. To be safe, require a drug test for every pony that gets a re-measure (don’t spend the money to screen every sample, but take every sample and screen randomly).
At the very biggest shows you might need more stewards, but they’ll already be there so it’s not an issue. I also agree with raising the permanent card age to 8 and perhaps one mandatory measure each year, to be completed before, say, June 1 or at the first show if the pony doesn’t compete before June.
I agree that measuring every pony at Pony Finals would not be that big of a deal, manpower-wise. There are already several stewards working the show, besides the Chief Steward. You may have to bring in one or two more for measurement day, but the show is in Lexington and there are several stewards who live there that could probably fill that bill. As I said before, have a station for each size. If the pony fits under the stick at it’s respective height, they totally go about their business. I think the vast majority of the ponies would fit this scenario. Ponies that don’t measure on the first attempt get referred to the Chief Steward for a second measurement. It could be done. After they were measured, some type of easily-seen stamp could be placed on their number for easy, visual confirmation that the measurement had been done.
Please remember that stewards have numerous other jobs to do at all shows, and lots of extras at those big shows. Taking them out of action for measuring stations could create a lot of conflicts with the unforeseen issues that always arise. Those who are saying it wouldn’t be time consuming or difficult for the stewards, it would be!!
Bigger issue - how about getting the microchip rule passed and clamp down on those who just rename and remeasure? That would really show that the federation is trying to clean up the sport.
[QUOTE=Tackpud;7826167]
Bigger issue - how about getting the microchip rule passed and clamp down on those who just rename and remeasure? That would really show that the federation is trying to clean up the sport.[/QUOTE]
Amen sistah.
Not just Ponies either, maybe a Junior a Hunter that measures over and come back a year later 3 states away with a new name as a First Year Green? Or the perpetual Pre Green with more aliases then a con man.
The microchip rule is something with a few negatives but a whole lot of potential to clean our sports dirty underbelly and eliminate a large part of the intentional fraud.
[QUOTE=Dana;7825992]
I agree that measuring every pony at Pony Finals would not be that big of a deal, manpower-wise. [/QUOTE]
You know there were more than 500 ponies at Pony Finals this year, right? Not counting the ones just there for the Pony Medal.
Yeah, I know the numbers are huge, but I still think it’s a doable thing. They would need to bring in a few extra stewards to help, but I think it could be done. The vast majority of the ponies are going to be super simple and there won’t be any questions.
[QUOTE=Dana;7827268]
Yeah, I know the numbers are huge, but I still think it’s a doable thing. They would need to bring in a few extra stewards to help, but I think it could be done. The vast majority of the ponies are going to be super simple and there won’t be any questions.[/QUOTE]
It is doable if they are planning for it and adjust staffing and responsibilities accordingly. Expecting a show exactly as run now to manage to suddenly stick 500 ponies would be somewhat unrealistic. 
500 ponies @ 5 minutes per pony equals over 41 hours of measurements needed. 41 hours! Some will take a bit longer, some a bit less. But no matter how you plan it, that’s over 5 days of 8 hour days measuring ponies. Even dividing it up between extra stewards, does anyone else see the problem here?! And how many trainers will start complaining when they have set times to be measured and they’re the last one of the day when the steward has already seen 80 other ponies and may be cross eyed from reading the stick all day? And who is going to be responsible for checking that the pony that is brought up for measurement is actually the pony that is entered? Add another 5 minutes per pony for identification.
Microchips are the only answer that I can see.
-Microchips required.
-Measurement once per year (must be different stewards), until the pony is 8 years old.
-For pony finals, all ponies 8 and under must be measured within the last 30 days. For ponies over 8, they must be measured within 30 days the first time they come to finals after the rule is passed.
-Lines set to fit the median size pony of the division, not the largest.
-Free remeasure after pony is 8 years old on purchase (so pony will go into the correct division, not what was stated. (Cheats can run, but they can’t hide if they sell).
Could also apply to Jr. Hunters
eliminate striding all together and let the best ride win.
The microchips solve the problems of the ponies going for points at the big shows, but they’re another expensive barrier for people just taking a lesson horse out for a kid’s first show. But maybe you only need them for the A shows.
Kestrel’s suggestions sounded quite achievable, IMO. With regard to the expense of a microchip, how much are they for a horse? My dog’s was only $35, done at a normal appointment. Even if they cost $100 for a horse, that is a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of showing.
My dog’s was $18, they couldn’t be much more than $50-75 even including a vet call for a horse.
[QUOTE=poltroon;7828077]
The microchips solve the problems of the ponies going for points at the big shows, but they’re another expensive barrier for people just taking a lesson horse out for a kid’s first show. But maybe you only need them for the A shows.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think anyone is thinking of requiring them for lesson horses going to local shows. And they could also exempt them for people showing in the opportunity and other non-rated divisions at rated shows.
