Okay, so I just read this COTH article: http://chronofhorse.com/article/pony-remeasurement-reignites-size-debate
Can someone please explain to me why people would think remeasuring ponies is a bad thing? I’m lost. Coming from dressage, this makes no sense to me whatsoever.
I mean, the pony is or isn’t the correct height, right? And you’re either honest or lying and you deserve to get caught if you’re lying, right?
I must be missing something…
I was thinking the same thing when reading that article…
the outrage has more to do with the suggested solution: “Take away pony height sections altogether and create sections based on fence height with restricted ages”
the reason this is such a big deal is that the use of the small and medium ponies will disappear, because “quiet, slow strides” are rewarded. Of small, medium, and large ponies, who has the most “quiet slow strides” while still able to get down a line in a certain # of strides? the large ponies. so you’ll have all 3 height divisions dominated by large ponies. Nevermind that a small pony, more suitable for the small 9 year old child on his back, with a nice quiet but hustling stride, will have a hard time getting in the ribbons because they will always get beat out by a larger pony of the same calibur, because of the judging method which is based off of “who is slowest who gets the job done”
thats the gist of the issue. one suggestion i saw in response to this article was to have the understanding that any big pony competition or pony finals candidate must be able to prove their pony’s height. so if you dont think you can “replicate the experience” which granted your pony a permanant card, then compete locally but dont go to pony finals or any big competition because you will have to be able to prove it then.
Re-measuring can be a good thing, but it could be a game-changer for some. My own large pony, who was measured totally per the rules, with me (not BNT) bringing him for measurement grew after being measured, and there’s no way he’d be a pony if measured today. He’s not showing anymore and is pretty much retired, so no problem in the show world.
Years ago one of the barn kids had a fantastic mare that did not measure as a pony, so she showed as a small Jr. Hunter. That mare got older, and if remeasured probably would have been considered a pony. She would have been a kick-butt large.
With the technology available today, I’m in favor of microchipping and one horse, one USEF number, one name, one show record, but not one size always. But as always, be careful what you ask for, because you may get it.
Simply put, many of those in the elite pony ranks know that if measured at a show, their “permanent carded” ponies would not measure.
No one wants to go from just under to just over any height line.
the uproar about random measurements is that a “top of the line” pony who measured under ideal circumstances (i.e. with some prep, lunging, riding down, short trim on feet etc) may not measure on any given day when pulled by USEF to remeasure. Add in the fact that there are BNTs out there who can walk a pony up to a steward and get any measurement they need. I’m not sure how prevalent that is today, but certainly 5-10 years ago, that’s how it was done. SO, the uproar basically tells us that many of the ponies out there may be oversized, at least oversized for a random, unprepared measurement. I am in favor of allowing a 1/2 inch leeway on random measurements for that reason, for ponies that legitimately measure with prep, and that would still not help those solidly 15h larges that we know are out there.
I don’t personally like the current proposal to drop all heights and create a mishmash pony hunter division, even though it would benefit my kid because she’s young enough to ride any size pony in any of the jump heights. But i think is radical, and is somewhat of a free pass to those ponies who are too big right now. I’d rather see random measurements or guaranteed measurements at Pony Finals and indoors etc.
Thanks for the replies. It does seem crazy and crooked if people are having a problem with the measuring. If the problem is with the divisions (which was NOT clear in that article) then I understand that–and as a total outsider I see the concern with getting rid of the pony classes!
The problem is it’s not about ‘catching the liars’. Many of these ponies are owned by clueless non-horsey parents buying what their trainer tells them is appropriate for their kid. The people getting hurt aren’t the cheating trainers, the stewards, the BNT pony kids, etc. It’s little Susie riding her first ‘pony’, which maybe measures as a large with a short trim and lunging, but on a random 'up day; measures 1/4" over. Now the parents are out $$$$ and pissed, and little susie is crying because she can’t ride/show her pony.
Maybe that’s a good thing. Maybe it will still catch the cheaters. If the coach is bad, then they’ll get caught out and possilby sued out of business. Not a bad thing if they are really cheating.
Honestly if I had a little kid I would rather have them on a large anyway. Too many smalls and mediums have bad attitudes. May the best ponies win even if they are all larges. Maybe the days of the puny demons are done.
[QUOTE=DarkBayHunter;7806193]
Honestly if I had a little kid I would rather have them on a large anyway. Too many smalls and mediums have bad attitudes. May the best ponies win even if they are all larges. Maybe the days of the puny demons are done.[/QUOTE]
Clueless!!:no:
[QUOTE=Cannonball;7806235]
Clueless!!:no:[/QUOTE]
Nope just apparently disagree with you.
I’m an outsider on the measurement thing but I disagree with the pony divisions being based on age of rider instead of height of pony.
I just think about the fact I will not measure my dressage horse who was a hair under 16.3 ever again, because as he has developed his withers have definitely gotten higher - and at 5’1" I refuse to have confirmation that I own a 17 hand horse. Same thing for a pony who gets its permanent card possibly before it finishes growing, or also before it has developed muscle and become more uphill in build. I don’t know if the correct answer is if they were the height when they had their permanent card it stays, or if the answer is re-measure. I can see it wreaking havoc on trying to train/lease/sell/breed with the uncertainty of what you’ll get.
I kind of like the argument about stride size with different types of ponies and find it persuasive, but it’s a pretty complex issue, and I think the knee-jerk reactiveness on writing a new rule is an issue, too.
While many smaller ponies can be demons (they are short and therefore closer to Hell) the fact remains that suitability is, and should remain, a standard for the divisions. A very small child on a plump large looks no more suitable than a pony crusher on a too small mount.
Since slow appears to be the standard, the smalls and mediums will have no more chance against larges than that large would against a 16.2 horse in the children’s hunters.
I have to remember “pony crusher”. Thank you! About died of laughter!:lol:
[QUOTE=Linny;7806332]
While many smaller ponies can be demons (they are short and therefore closer to Hell) the fact remains that suitability is, and should remain, a standard for the divisions. A very small child on a plump large looks no more suitable than a pony crusher on a too small mount.
Since slow appears to be the standard, the smalls and mediums will have no more chance against larges than that large would against a 16.2 horse in the children’s hunters.[/QUOTE]
Ok “closer to hell”; that made me bust out a laugh. If size suitability should be more important than slow way of going then they can change the judging standards of this phantom new plan.
Or they could just leave it asis and stop the pony breeders from having heart attacks.
So you’re saying a large pony could not compete against a 16.2h horse maybe much like thoroughbreds are having a hard time competing against the warmbloods? 
Well, they are moving the measurement for a permanent card from age 6 to age 8 to deal with late bloomers. And that whole eliminate the size divisions thing is just a proposal that will be discussed at the upcoming convention…and no doubt be tabled for further research and discussion. That one still won’t eliminate the oversized Large problem, that’s why office inspired spot checking is, IMO, a very good idea instead of putting the onus on members to public ally call out an offender.
There is a long way to go insuring the integrity of certain stewards and vets. Not dissing the majority that have ethics but…there are some that certainly don’t so maybe holding them in some way accountable if they have a number of Ponies they issued cards to later measure over is a step in the right direction.
I was wondering, is there some other way of accurate measurement beside that stick and level that is much as such devices have been since…when? Ancient Greece or earlier? How about a laser device? Anything else out there?
Anyway, I don’t get the the feeling of injustice and outrage when asked to remeasure. Any actual inconvenience can be worked out as the spot check program moves along. I have communicated that to the powers that be and urge all members to pass their feelings along, one way or the other.
I have a question regarding the proposed age/height restriction rule. Does that mean that a kid can age out of a lower height division and have to show over large jumps? That seems completely unfair and unrealistic. What about the kids who start riding/jumping/showing later in life, or older kids who can’t afford a pony that jumps bigger jumps? Not every (or even most) kid started riding at 4 and bought a fancy pony at 6.
[QUOTE=Big_Grey_hunter;7806370]
I have a question regarding the proposed age/height restriction rule. Does that mean that a kid can age out of a lower height division and have to show over large jumps? That seems completely unfair and unrealistic. What about the kids who start riding/jumping/showing later in life, or older kids who can’t afford a pony that jumps bigger jumps? Not every (or even most) kid started riding at 4 and bought a fancy pony at 6.[/QUOTE]
Yes if you age out of the 14& under, your only option (other than greens) is the 2’9" - 3’ division under this proposal for regular ponies. There are still children’s ponies at 2’6" with no age restriction.
That part is no change though, it has been smalls are 12&under, mediums are 14& under and large are 17& under.
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