Find eight, Mary Babick said she is working with an engineer on a different method to measure.
I wonder just how many “friendly” protests there have been in the last couple of years?
[QUOTE=DarkBayHunter;7806363]
Ok “closer to hell”; that made me bust out a laugh. If size suitability should be more important than slow way of going then they can change the judging standards of this phantom new plan.
Or they could just leave it asis and stop the pony breeders from having heart attacks.
So you’re saying a large pony could not compete against a 16.2h horse maybe much like thoroughbreds are having a hard time competing against the warmbloods? ;)[/QUOTE]
A 15hh “hony” will generally be up against it in the hunter rings against a bigger animal because the long, slow step that gets the lines without rushing will place about the one that has to scurry to make the lines. Same applies in ponies.
As for the TB/WB, that’s another thread. Fact is that most TB’s don’t have the slow step and carriage that is currently rewarded in the hunters.
[QUOTE=Limerick;7806447]
Find eight, Mary Babick said she is working with an engineer on a different method to measure.
I wonder just how many “friendly” protests there have been in the last couple of years?[/QUOTE]
You mean by members? If so not many if any at all. Costs, takes time and could create repercussions against protestor, their trainer and other barn clients regardless of the result.
[QUOTE=Linny;7806473]
A 15hh “hony” will generally be up against it in the hunter rings against a bigger animal because the long, slow step that gets the lines without rushing will place about the one that has to scurry to make the lines. Same applies in ponies.
As for the TB/WB, that’s another thread. Fact is that most TB’s don’t have the slow step and carriage that is currently rewarded in the hunters.[/QUOTE]
My point exactly
[QUOTE=findeight;7806475]
You mean by members? If so not many if any at all. Costs, takes time and could create repercussions against protestor, their trainer and other barn clients regardless of the result.[/QUOTE]
I am a nobody and I know of three in last three years.
[QUOTE=Limerick;7806509]
I am a nobody and I know of three in last three years.[/QUOTE]
Me too! Large ponies to mediums. Mediums to smalls and large juniors to small juniors.
[QUOTE=MickMac;7805649]
t
the reason this is such a big deal is that the use of the small and medium ponies will disappear, because “quiet, slow strides” are rewarded. Of small, medium, and large ponies, who has the most “quiet slow strides” while still able to get down a line in a certain # of strides? the large ponies. so you’ll have all 3 height divisions dominated by large ponies. Nevermind that a small pony, more suitable for the small 9 year old child on his back, with a nice quiet but hustling stride, will have a hard time getting in the ribbons because they will always get beat out by a larger pony of the same calibur, because of the judging method which is based off of “who is slowest who gets the job done”.[/QUOTE]
Genuine question from someone who’s only experience with the pony hunter division in the past decade has been watching trips at Washington (and online coverage of Pony Finals trips/Devon/Indoors).
Are “slow quiet strides” really rewarded above the quality of the jump? Because I just don’t see a large pony jumping nicely over a 2’3" jump out of a 10 foot stride.
[QUOTE=Limerick;7806509]
I am a nobody and I know of three in last three years.[/QUOTE]
I heard of 2. Still that’s not very many over several years.
On the striding front, I don’t know how a large Large is going to look too stylish over a 2’3" jump.
I’m sure I’m going to be flamed, but in my opinion, a pony should be able to measure with very little prep. Otherwise, they need to be in the next height division. I don’t agree with the 1/2" proposal some are suggesting.
As for taking away the pony height sections, that is absurd.
BTW - I bred ponies for many years, so I do understanding the breeding aspect of it. Sometimes ponies grow into honys. Make a suitable division for them.
Support the Small Hunter that exists at some shows and request it at others.
[QUOTE=LockeMeadows;7806771]
I’m sure I’m going to be flamed, but in my opinion, a pony should be able to measure with very little prep. Otherwise, they need to be in the next height division. I don’t agree with the 1/2" proposal some are suggesting.
As for taking away the pony height sections, that is absurd.
BTW - I bred ponies for many years, so I do understanding the breeding aspect of it. Sometimes ponies grow into honys. Make a suitable division for them.[/QUOTE]
I agree, I think that should be the end goal- to try and steer the industry towards accepting and WANTING the “normal sized” ponies, not just the ones that are so tall for their size that they take days worth of prep to measure in properly.
Unfortunately, that’s not how the pony industry has developed currently, and right now, when people purchase ponies for hundreds of thousands of dollars, they more often than not, want it to be the scopiest, have the biggest stride, and more often than not, they want it to be one of the tallest in its division.
This has led to the process of measuring becoming an art form. If you have a top dollar pony that’s due to be measured for its permanent card, the preparations often begin weeks in advance. Practice sessions, becoming calm with the stick, changing the shoes, clipping, etc. Having to recreate that process at a show with 1-hour notice, on a pony that you may not have even measured before, is difficult if not impossible in some situations.
I like the idea of re-measuring the existing ponies and being stricter. But I don’t think it should be random. The industry isn’t ready for for that yet- it’s creating complete uproar.
Instead of random measurements, I agree with the idea of making it guaranteed. Guaranteed measurements for ribbon winners at Devon, Indoors, Pony Finals. If you’re going to those shows and expecting to ribbon, you should be prepared. Even with such ample notice, there will still be some ponies in the first year that just simply won’t measure into their size. But maybe knowing that will encourage trainers to step forward and remeasure their ponies by choice, as mentioned in the COTH article, instead of by force.
Fiction has it right!
[QUOTE=Fiction;7806994]
Having to recreate that process at a show with 1-hour notice, on a pony that you may not have even measured before, is difficult if not impossible in some situations. [/QUOTE]
Really? You think that ponies showing at the top A shows have never been measured before? Casually in the barn to see how tall they really are? How do the trainers even know which division to put them in then?
Most trainers with serious Pony business have a stick with stand and level or know who does. And they use it. They know.
But somebody two or three buyers and trainers down the road may actually have never measured the Pony, or any Pony. Just trusted it was as represented and that’s unfortunate. Be interesting to see what happens.
Is there any reason why the large pony height division can’t increase to accommodate those honies–note my username, I owned own, and she would have been a stellar large children’s pony hunter, but she was just over. I have never understood why we can’t make a shift in the measurements. And after that, I’m with Fiction and Lockmeade. Just have to be stricter with measuring. The dishonesty and lack of ethics I’ve encountered when it comes to ponies’ height (and other things…) just astounds me.
[QUOTE=Blugal;7807014]
Really? You think that ponies showing at the top A shows have never been measured before? Casually in the barn to see how tall they really are? How do the trainers even know which division to put them in then?[/QUOTE]
No, not what I meant. Obviously they’ve all been measured before (they do have measurement cards after all), and most top trainers keep a stick in their barn to measure their ponies and have an idea of where exactly they fall. But there are also many trainers (maybe not the top top ones) that are just simply unaware. They buy a pony that someone tells them is 13.1 and they will take that information as hard fact.
Or, say you lease a pony starting August 1. You take it right to a show on August 2nd, and oops, you get pulled for a random measurement. Have you had time to practice measure the pony yet? Probably not.
The second scenario may lead to more people bringing a measuring stick to pre-purchase (or pre-lease) exams. Can’t take someone else’s word on the size anymore- you’d better be able to produce that measurement yourself.
Wow, I take a stick when just tire-kicking, never mind when actually purchasing - and if I don’t, I know it’s at my peril.
[QUOTE=Pony+ an inch;7807079]
Is there any reason why the large pony height division can’t increase to accommodate those honies–note my username, I owned own, and she would have been a stellar large children’s pony hunter, but she was just over. I have never understood why we can’t make a shift in the measurements. And after that, I’m with Fiction and Lockmeade. Just have to be stricter with measuring. The dishonesty and lack of ethics I’ve encountered when it comes to ponies’ height (and other things…) just astounds me.[/QUOTE]
The measurement rules do not just apply to hunter/jumper ponies. They also apply to te Welsh, Shetland, and Hackney divisions to name a few. So any changes in sizes affect more than just us - USEF would never be able to change those heights since so many different disciplines would be against it.
[QUOTE=Cannonball;7806566]
Me too! Large ponies to mediums. Mediums to smalls and large juniors to small juniors.[/QUOTE]
Those sound to me more like “friendly” protests. As in, “Hey, I thought this thing was bigger, but it measured closer to the line than I expected. If I give you the $200, could you protest him for me so he gets re-measured into the smaller division?”
Can anyone explain this?
But pony 2 was born in 2005 not 2004, to same sire and dam, and is now a small
“The problem with this is that the sire and dam had an actual foal in 2005, Farmore Prima Ballerina. According to USEF’s own records, the dam had 3 foals in a 12 month period- one foal in 2004 and two foals in 2005…USEF did not find it suspicious that the 2004 medium pony disappeared and that the mare gave birth to two foals in 2005, both small ponies, each one three months apart.”
Not my own quote or research for the record. Just curious how this could happen and how we could better police issues like this.
