Hey guys! I know the pony jumper division has always been a smaller one, but I feel this year, its dropping even more (with the pony jumpers being taken out of the NAL as of this year). I was hoping to start the pony jumpers this year, but have heard from many that the division rarely happens at my nearby shows (generally swan lake…). Ive been thinking about ways to increase the division. What about increasing the age limit to 21? It seems that the riders who compete are generally older, and age out after a year or two. What do you guys think? Any other suggestions? Anyone have experience proposing a rule change to USEF? 
lol. Thanks! I dont want to see this division die!
I would actually love to see the pony jumpers opened to amateurs as well as juniors regardless of age, but I can’t see that happening anytime soon.
21 and under is actually a good idea. I don’t see Amateur and Junior happening. But 21 and under maybe!
Do you live in Zone 2? It’s probably worth it to think about heading to New Jersey or New York, as the south central part of PA tends to be very huntery. I don’t know much about pony jumpers in particular, but IME can be hard to fill anything other than the hunter divisions and 3’ medals at Swan Lake.
@ondeck, I live in zone 3, so unfortunately, that’s not an option. Swan lake is pretty much the only place that has the division at all. Thanks guys!
Isn’t there some way to use other jumping divisions to count towards pony jumper standings? Or am I imagining this? I would call USEF and ask for some help with that.
[QUOTE=carroal;7517791]
Isn’t there some way to use other jumping divisions to count towards pony jumper standings? Or am I imagining this? I would call USEF and ask for some help with that.[/QUOTE]
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe some zones allow you to use other divisions towards pony finals, but not the actual standings. And again, I don’t believe zone 3 is one of those zones.
The rules for qualifying for pony jumpers at pony finals has changed this year. Last year there were some zones that allowed you to compete in other divisions and have them count. That was disallowed this year and there is a formula for fence height/faults/number in the division that translates into points. The shows are supposed to hold a pony jumper division even if there are not enough ponies to fill a division.
Here is the link to the information:
The list of qualified pony/rider combinations is different than the horse of the year list since the dates for qualifying are different. For example, my daughter who aged out is still listed in 4th place for Zone 2 but will not show up on the 2014 Leaderboard.
The PJ’s are alive and well in Zone 2! I don’t know why we have a decent amount of PJ’s here and not in the rest of the country. Can anyone offer insight into this?
More people in general with more disposable income from higher paying jobs in general means the shows are bigger across the board. Relatively close shows too, don’t have to travel so far to them. Little bit of tradition from Hunting where kids start on Ponies too.
Most of the other zones can’t fill PJ. Not enough of them in the first place and it’s a long haul to the shows even for those who can afford to show rated.
I can think of 3 pj’s by name in zone 4, but at the past 3 shows I’ve been to, the division has been run without filling. I do think that it would help if the age was extended to 21, and maybe even setting up a division for the mediums and smalls, at 3’3", then 3’ or even bumping the larges up to 3’9" and having the mediums be 3’6" and smalls 3’3", because then there’d be room for the small ponies with scope, but not 3’6" scope, plus maybe a 3’3"-3’9" division for those that are ready for the big boy jumpers, but are simply too little to hang on or control a 17hh horse or simply can’t afford the jumper but could find that quick 12.2 pony easily.
Not sure I agree that more splits will really help a division that struggles to fill.
A lot of the problem is that (as a general but not universal rule) kids riding ponies aren’t ready for the jumpers and once kids are ready for the jumpers-- they want to be on a horse rather than a pony. Not sure I agree with diluting/dumbing the division down with splits and lower heights. I think a better plan is to incentivize participation with fun prizes/qualifications. Look at M&S, those people are MASTERS at making everyone want to qualify for a year-end show. Rather than zones, I bet if M&S had pony jumpers and let people get points at non-rated shows too-- there’d be a lot more interest. No pony jumper expert here, just an outsider’s take.
[QUOTE=hunterrider23;7519542]
I can think of 3 pj’s by name in zone 4, but at the past 3 shows I’ve been to, the division has been run without filling. I do think that it would help if the age was extended to 21, and maybe even setting up a division for the mediums and smalls, at 3’3", then 3’ or even bumping the larges up to 3’9" and having the mediums be 3’6" and smalls 3’3", because then there’d be room for the small ponies with scope, but not 3’6" scope, plus maybe a 3’3"-3’9" division for those that are ready for the big boy jumpers, but are simply too little to hang on or control a 17hh horse or simply can’t afford the jumper but could find that quick 12.2 pony easily.[/QUOTE]
Honestly, the idea of kids running a small or a medium pony jumper around a 3’ course terrifies me. I agree that I don’t think splits would really help. I would think lowering the height would generate more entries but would then prefer to see it be an optimum time class since lowering the height would also invite some scarier rounds. Maybe then the classic, set a little higher, would still be run without an optimum time.
Let us old folks in though! Then you can get the adults who foxhunt or event on their pony but don’t necessarily want to waste the money to show in the adult jumpers against ex grand prix horses or ex A/O jumpers. I think that would help and might even make a pony jumper easier to sell. I doubt it would make them more valuable, but it certainly make them appeal to a (at least slightly) larger market.
[QUOTE=vxf111;7519617]
I bet if M&S had pony jumpers and let people get points at non-rated shows too-- there’d be a lot more interest.[/QUOTE]
M&S had pony jumpers until recently - I think 2011, maybe 2010. The classic never filled at regular shows and even the finals only maybe 6 or 7 in them. I think it’d be an interesting idea to open the division to 21 and under, or perhaps even to all ages.
Biggest problem is M&S is the location, no way are people not in the upper zones willing to go to a finals in NY. Just the shipping alone would be astronomical for those in the West and South. For me personally, it’d be around $1466.25 to ship one way. So there’s $2932.50, just getting there and coming back. Then you’re spending another 1,000 on entry fees and probably close to that on training/barn care. Personally as someone located in TN and then projected to pay 5k for one show, not worth it. That’s two weeks somewhere else, maybe more locally. And then there’s the people coming from FL and TX and California, I’d probably cringe at the prices there. If M&S would hold finals in KY, or somewhere more central to the US then it’d probably be bigger.
I didn’t mean M&S specifically, necessarily… but to follow their lead in getting people incentivized to show. They sure know the magic to getting people out and point chasing!
[QUOTE=vxf111;7519617]
Not sure I agree that more splits will really help a division that struggles to fill.
A lot of the problem is that (as a general but not universal rule) kids riding ponies aren’t ready for the jumpers and once kids are ready for the jumpers-- they want to be on a horse rather than a pony. Not sure I agree with diluting/dumbing the division down with splits and lower heights. I think a better plan is to incentivize participation with fun prizes/qualifications. Look at M&S, those people are MASTERS at making everyone want to qualify for a year-end show. Rather than zones, I bet if M&S had pony jumpers and let people get points at non-rated shows too-- there’d be a lot more interest. No pony jumper expert here, just an outsider’s take.[/QUOTE]
i agree with vxf11, but in a more general sense. Kids just aren’t riding ponies for as long as they used to ride them. The ponies just aren’t as popular with regards to a long-term goal as they once were. Back in the 1980s, the majority of juniors stayed on ponies until they aged out. Back then, there were no age restrictions related to pony size as there are now.
Today, the kids with the money behind them all start their transition out of the pony divisions by the time they’re 12.
The pony division has slowly become the stepping stone to the “big kid” horse divisions, to the point where no one wants to stay on ponies any longer than necessary. If you are 14 and still riding division ponies of any size (unless as a a “pro” junior who is catch riding someone else’s ponies), you might as well throw in the towel. You’re done and forgotten.
Pony jumpers have always struggled compared to the pony hunters, but ponies in general have become less of a focus in general over time.
The recent success of junior riders as serious competitors against the professionals is a new phenomenon in the last few years, and it’s not going to go away. The pony division is paying for it, and this trend is not going to diminish in the future.
I have no suggestions but to look at england and what they do. They have massive pony divisions.
They have more focus on jumpers in general.
IMO, the pony jumpers were dead pretty much when they got started. I had one doing the 3’6 adults and winning the year they started and got several $50k+ offers for her that winter. Once people saw what they were going to be, her value dropped to nothing again. :lol:
I like the idea of letting amateurs show in the Pony Jumpers as well… why not? Children and adults show against each other at the smaller shows in the ch/ad jumpers anyway. It would add a few entries and allow adults who own ponies to do something with them. I don’t think the adults would have any kind of advantage. As someone else said it could increase the market for these ponies a tiny bit. Plenty of adults event and foxhunt on ponies, it would be a great avenue if they wanted to pursue goals in the show ring without necessitating a new horse.
