Hi - looking for some assistance! Would anyone be able to direct to me to the specific rules in the USEF rulebook for pony measurement? I have searched the rulebook and found all of the guidelines for measurement etc but not specifically the rules for height maximum for pony divisions. Also, does the height for a USEF rated show differ from a USDF rule for pony height?
We are looking to purchase a pony but it doesn’t have a permanent card and I am very nervous about it measuring over (vet measured it at 14.2 and some change). The seller is adamant that it will be fine and with a trim she would get to 148cm, but is that the height for a USEF card? Or is it the exact measurement of 14.2 which is really more like 147.32 cm. I don’t want to get stuck with a hony!
Thanks for any advice or assistance.
CHAPTER 5 MEASUREMENT OF ENTRIES SubChapter 5-A CONDITIONS https://www.usef.org/forms-pubs/2RtnwVIaoXY/gr5-measurement-of-entries
HUNTER/JUMPER AND WELSH MEASUREMENT CHECKLIST https://usequestrian.org/forms-pubs/CfO4kJmulRg/hunter--welsh-measurement-check-list
How old is the pony?
Look at HJ sub chapter 7 regarding hunter/jumper measurements. Also see HU 141 for specific pony heights. Large ponies are over 13.2 and do not exceed 14.2 hands.
Thanks, I hadn’t seen that 2nd link before. Pony is 13.
Does the 148 cm without shoes/149 cm with shoes only apply to dressage competition? I can’t find mention of cm measurement anywhere else.
Thanks so much. That section was helpful too.
DR 135 is the USEF / FEI rules for pony in dressage
Be aware that FEI Pony Tests for Dressage can only be ridden by 12-16 yo. Ponies many be ridden by adults or children in regular tests. DR 119
Thanks so much. yes, not really so worried about dressage competition as we will be competing in hunter competition. It was more that the owner was citing dressage measurement rules and I wanted to determine that there is a difference between the two. It seems that there actually is a very marginal difference but could be the difference between a pony and horse in hunter competition I guess.
It’s 13? If they’re so sure it can get a card could they do that prior to purchase as a condition of sale? It’s a little odd that a pony of that age doesn’t have a card. Did it never show rated? Are you going to?
I am ASSuming that it might be a dressage pony in Europe (or one that has been recently), which would make me extra nervous about the measure.
Is it in your area? Or if you’re willing to travel to it, meet them at a rated show and have it measured there (make sure they’re doing measurements - I’m not sure when they decide to do them).
Seller mentioned USDF rules. I’m assuming it’s a dressage pony making a career switch. In any case, get it measured before you buy. Dressage people are more into honies than hunter people and you don’t want to be stuck with a pony that measures over and it’s not useful to you.
Good call. Even local rated shows will do measures if you let them know in advance so the vet can be present. I’d make the sale contingent upon a measurement.
Make sure to measure it with a USEF approved stick. Wooden ones are notoriously inaccurate. I knew one dealer with a “horse” stick (measured bigger) and a “pony” stick (measured smaller).
Dressage measures in cm and yes due to rounding and conventions that means a pony can be a wee bit taller for dressage than hunters. You need a separate card for each division - they are not interchangeable.
If you want to show the hunter ponies, get a permanent card as a condition of the sale. The pony will have to go to a show to be measured officially, and at a show where there is a steward set up to measure for pony cards.
When I had my pony measured, I got the dressage card and the hunter card from the same measurement, just had to pay for each card.
There is a note above that the FEI pony test has to be ridden by a youth, yes, but adults can show ponies in regular classes and there are often separate prizes for the best score on a pony, etc, so the dressage card does have value if the pony ever returns to dressage.
I might not be answering your actual question, but 148 cm is going to measure over 14.2 for a USEF card to be a large pony hunter or a pony jumper. 148cm is like 14.2 1/2 or 3/4.
Back when I dabbled, the joke was Arabian breeders just cut the bottom two inches off their sticks…
Only 2”? 
My foundation broodmare was sold to me as 14.1. I figured she’d be a bit smaller than that, but imagine my surprise when she stepped off the trailer at 13.2 only if measured very, very generously on an “up” day with long feet. 
Luckily, she’s exemplary in every other way, and I’m only 5’1”. But I always figure any Arabian or Half Arabian advertised for sale is a full hand or more shorter than advertised.
I sold a 14.1 3/4” purebred mare almost a decade ago. EVERY single person who inquired about her insisted that she MUST be taller than that based solely on photos. Nope, definitely not. I measure my horses on concrete or asphalt with a USEF stick. Lol.
Isn’t it crazy?? When I was honestly advertising, I knew I was shooting myself in the foot by putting 14.1 or whatever because the people “in the know” would think they were really 13.3… But like you, concrete and a real stick with a level.
Dressage and combined driving (it aligns with FEI pony measurements).
Bottom line is 148 is bigger than h/j ponies
Hah! It totally shouldn’t.
I grew up in the era of some pony fraud in Florida and figured that shit made us pretty bulletproof in the measurements department… So I made the mistake of voicing that same assumption in front of a few US based FEI vets and a top driver/dressage person from the Netherlands. Uh, I was very quickly disabused of that notion! Turns out FEI pony drama makes US pony drama look like a third rate reality show drama. In fact, in order to get an FEI pony measurement, it must be measured independently by 2 FEI vets (and the TD must be there, obviously) and the measuring pad has to meet some independent standards as well. But most importantly neither vet can be from the host country of the competition. Also, in some instances they use laser levels. One can only wonder what kerfuffle (lawsuit) led to all these quality controls, but it’s why we combined driving pony people had 2 vets over from Europe at Live Oak International this year and held an FEI pony measurepalooza. But I must admit, my FEI pony measurement page in his passport is way fancier than my USEF measurement. 
