ponying a youngster who nips

[myblackmorgan]

I would like to pony my just-turned-3 year old but am having problems with her being alpha to the lead horse - she immediately starts to pester him by invading his space and niping on him. Lead horse now just tries to scoot off the minute she gets near. Don’t have another horse to lead from.

Thought about putting a grazing muzzle on her but she would probably just try to bat him with it. She’s not a mean filly - just pestering.

I am new to this and not real adept yet. Any suggestions? She is a slow maturing breed so I am trying not to ride her too often during the week and would like to take her further afield than I am able to do ground driving.

Thanks!

[chicamuxen1]

I do a fair amount of ponying. I ride my older, well trained gelding and pony the younger gelding who is used to “playing” bite face, bite butt, etc with the other horse. The older, smaller horse Mouse is just barely dominant over Wynne by being the better biter/kicker. They adore each others company and spend the day playing, scratching, grooming and taking chunks out of each other. Needless to say, ponying one off the other has had it’s challenges.

I got some good results by using a stud chain over the nose of Wynne and giving him a good hard jerk anytime he even reached for the other but that causes him to jerk back which can be tough on the rider. I then took up carrying a dressage whip in the hand closest to Wynne, having to also hold the lead rope in that hand and the reins plus excess rope in the other hand. Not easy but I didn’t have to do it for long. I give a growl then a flick of the whip. Pretty soon the growl is all that’s needed.

Ponying on narrow trails is another issue because Wynne is behind Mouse who gets paranoid that Wynne will bite his butt. Wynne knows he is out of my reach. However, after spinning Mouse around and coming down on him like a screaming banshee he has improved his following manners too. Poor Mouse is still paranoid though and tucks his tail and scoots even when the rope bumps him.

I do pony at walk/trot and holly crap its a race gallop. I do STRONGLY recommend that anyone who gives this a try should put something like a nose chain, be nice halter or Monty Roberts Halter on the ponied horse. I was given a MR halter by a friend and I have got to say it is the best thing I’ve ever used for ponying and training a horse to come forward when being led. It tightens when they pull back but loosens when they step forward.

Bonnie S.

[Equibrit]

Start on the ground and discipline the ponied horse there. Then go trail riding.

[Auventera_Two]

I ride one and pony 2, a lot. The youngest used to try playing games, but a chain on the nose and a sharp reprimand made it very clear that when we’re working, we are NOT playing kissie face with the horse next to you. I think it took one session to break the habit.

[Movin_Artfully]

Any time anyone ponies- it is the rider’s absolute responsibility to protect the pony horse from the colts antics. If this means a rope, flag, or boot upside the colt’s head…so be it…or you will ruin your pony horse. I would punish any “pestering/nipping” severely- because it is blatant disrespectful to your pony horse and to you.

Think about it this way. If the horse you are riding goes through your rein, or leg, or seat to get our of the way of your squirrley filly- then not only did you allow the filly to be a brat, but you also allowed your riding horse to “run” through your aids.

Everything on our farm ponies. It takes awhile to build up a new pony horse’s confidence so they do not allow youngers to “run them off the road”. If you don’t come down on your filly- you will destroy your pony horse’s confidence until he is more clear on what to do.

[Janet]

Do exactly the same thing you would do if the horse started pestering YOU while you were leading, or working in hand.

I am very lucky to have a pony horse who, while near the bottom of the pecking order in the field, has no problem at all correcting the ponied horse if it misbehaves. Such as chain over the nose.

Another option, to get through the first few times and establish the rules, is to have TWO lead ropes on the ponied horse, and have a second person walking on the other side of the horse to correct him as soon as he starts to pster.

[Paddys_Mom]

I always put a bridle with no reins over or under the halter on the ponied horse so they know they are working. I pony off of the halter but the bridle is on.

[matryoshka]

I’ve ponied for years off horses who were lower in the pecking order. They deserve protection for their efforts and their obedience. Not every horse is a good pony horse, so treat yours like gold. I like to keep the youngster at about my knee until they pony well and with manners. So if they nip, they’re going to be nipping me, not the pony horse (they are much less likely to nip me, and they have to travel to nip the pony horse). If you allow the ponied horse to get too far ahead he’ll try to take the lead and can bite the neck. Too far behind and he could balk–until he “gets” that he has to follow quietly no matter what.

I like a nose chain on the horse being ponied until they learn manners. The problem comes if the horse being ponied balks at an obstacle and throws his head back. I’ve had decent success using a rope halter, but I don’t like how much “play” there is (not as snug as an adjustable halter). Haven’t tried the Monty Roberts halter, but it sounds interesting and might be the best of everything.

I protect the horse I’m riding by keeping the lead on the pony horse short enough to hold him away if necessary until he settles down. He gets a quick punch to the side of the mouth if he nips (whatever I can reach, actually). It can’t be a slap because the hand is already fisted around the lead. When he’s behaving, he gets rewarded by being allowed closer. I’m not good with holding multiple things in one hand, so I’ve got to do it the hard way: either a quick yank or a punch if I’m not quick enough for a yank correction.

Remember the 3-second rule. You can be as firm as you want within three seconds of the offense. If you miss your opportunity altogether, don’t apply the reprimand–but wait carefully for the next opportunity.

The best thing you can do is anticipate your youngster’s action and counter it before it becomes a nip. Keep watch out of the corner of your eye and notice aggressive body language. Use your voice (I growl) to warn him that he’s misbehaving. If you catch it early, you can use a less-severe reprimand and the horse learns not to even think about nipping.

[Janet]

@matryoshka;4336866

The best thing you can do is anticipate your youngster’s action and counter it before it becomes a nip. Keep watch out of the corner of your eye and notice aggressive body language. Use your voice (I growl) to warn him that he’s misbehaving. If you cant it early, you can use a less-severe reprimand and the horse learns not to even think about nipping.

Yep. Chief always stuck his upper lip out when he was THINKING about being bad. I would say (loudly) “NO Pinnochio noses”.

[katarine]

[QUOTE=Movin Artfully;4336785]
Any time anyone ponies- it is the rider’s absolute responsibility to protect the pony horse from the colts antics. If this means a rope, flag, or boot upside the colt’s head…so be it…or you will ruin your pony horse. I would punish any “pestering/nipping” severely- because it is blatant disrespectful to your pony horse and to you.

Think about it this way. If the horse you are riding goes through your rein, or leg, or seat to get our of the way of your squirrley filly- then not only did you allow the filly to be a brat, but you also allowed your riding horse to “run” through your aids.

Everything on our farm ponies. It takes awhile to build up a new pony horse’s confidence so they do not allow youngers to “run them off the road”. If you don’t come down on your filly- you will destroy your pony horse’s confidence until he is more clear on what to do.[/QUOTE]

Ditto!

Wear gloves

The ponied horse should be in a well fitted rope halter or well fitted regular halter and possibly a chain over the nose. Personally I won’t pony one in a bridle- work is work no matter the headgear and in a wreck, I’d rather they step on a lead rope than a bridle rein. JMO YMMV

Use a roping-type rein on your riding horse or at least one that’s not a million feet longer than it needs to be- a closed-loop of rein is safer and easier on you.

If the ponied horse gets rude I will absolutely push my riding horse into their space back them off and get their respectful attention. NO shenanigans. I find that keeping them moving is more productive than trying to stop, sit still, and sort them out. Keep moving, keep changing your directions, speed, etc- keep 'em busy. And don’t take no **** off no ponied pones

[Movin_Artfully]

[QUOTE=Janet;4336888]
Yep. Chief always stuck his upper lip out when he was THINKING about being bad. I would say (loudly) “NO Pinnocho noses”.[/QUOTE]

ROTFL

[Paddys_Mom]

@katarine;4336917

Personally I won’t pony one in a bridle- work is work no matter the headgear and in a wreck, I’d rather they step on a lead rope than a bridle rein. JMO YMMV

I did say NO REINS on the ponied horse!

[katarine]

[QUOTE=Paddys Mom;4336956]
I did say NO REINS on the ponied horse! :)[/QUOTE]

Dang, A for speed reading, F in reading comprehension

[lorilu]

At the track, the pony horses often wear a kind of “shoulder sheild”. Looks like a half-sleave or something.

L

[Paddys_Mom]

[QUOTE=katarine;4337034]
Dang, A for speed reading, F in reading comprehension ;)[/QUOTE]

And my horses should know it is work time in a halter… :winkgrin:

[myblackmorgan]

thank you

Thanks all. My first time trying to pony and didn’t have help except someone who had never done it before to hand me the youngster’s lead rope. Reading it is not like doing it. I like the idea of trying to find someone to walk beside with a second lead, just to teach. And if I can get help, also correcting her on the ground if she goes after him - if he won’t do it himself.

Talked to a learned old farrrier who has done this for 50 years and he actually ties the pony horse to his saddle horn. No quick release, either. That made me nervous but works for him. He figures the colt can’t drag off 1000 lbs of QH and I guess it gives him a free hand to corect the colt. What is your take?

[gothedistance]

Absolutely do NOT tie your ponied horse to your riding horse. For a well schooled horse 100% broke to ponying - like a polo pony- it could be done, but not to a youngster. Too much can go wrong too fast.

The classic method of ponying is to have the ponied horse to your left with it’s head level with your knee on a short lead, close enough for you to be able to touch it easily. That way you can control it better, and have it follow better. It will also be more inclined to behave. The bight of your lead should cross over your ridden horse’s withers/shoulder, through your right hand, so that the end will dangle on the far side. Your left hand should be free to hold the lead rope; your right hand on the ridden horse’s reins and the bight of the lead rope passing through. When you dismount, you will be standing between the two horses to easily lead them, separately, one on each side of you, back to the barn.

I would not recommend a chain over the nose – it can stop a horse dead in it’s tracks or cause it to throw up it’s head and yank your arm. Just do some ground work with the horse in a halter reinforcing your commands immediately when you say “slow up” or “back”. Thus, when the horse is being ponied, it will listen and obey.

Start your sessions in a small field or ring, just doing multiple circuits with the ponied horse on the inside. You can do obedience lessons with the ponied youngster that way, getting it used to the routine, before taking it out on the trail.

Once you get out on the trail, you will have laid the groundwork for both horses to consider the ride a working session, not a goof off session.

For my conditioning program I have been riding my 7 year old novice foxhunter, ponying my 19 year old endurance horse who (due to his competitive nature and years on the endurance trail) needed - in the beginning- constant reminders to keep his head at my knee. LOTS of reminders! He’s doing a bit better now that we are up to 6-7 miles a day, letting the younger pony do the leading… except when the old timer lets loose the “power trot” going up or down hills, making the poor youngster huff and puff just to stay ahead of the game. :rolleyes:

No doubt, I will have the best conditioned pair of ponies this fall for hunting and endurance …with only half the time expended.

[rodawn]

Oiy never tie a horse to another horse’s saddle. Baby might not be able to drag over your 1000 LB quarter horse… but he CAN move your saddle around! Break it, etc. Hold the rope and wear gloves. Start by ponying in an enclosed riding ring in case you have a mix up and you need to drop the rope on the 3-year-old. Then, you can just jump off your saddle horse, get reorganized and start again. Don’t be practising this on the trail until you’re adept at doing it in a fence-in area.

First thing a youngster needs to learn in no uncertain terms is that it does NOT matter who is boss horse in herd or not. MANNERS are MANNERS are MANNERS! No nipping. No biting. No kicking. No tantrums. YOU are the one who’s leading here, so you need to discipline your 3-year-old and protect your riding horse. Youngster learns that it does not matter which horses are around, YOU are the common denominator and the rules are the rules, no matter the place, the circumstances or the companions with you.

[myblackmorgan]

sounds like good, solid advice…will take it!

[EventerAJ]

I’ve also been doing a fair amount of ponying youngsters lately. 3 a day with a rock-solid QH, who gets beat up in the field but knows he’s boss over the pony. Since these are TB yearlings fitting up for sales, I pony them in a chiffney. I think already having something in their mouth helps a bit with the nipping, and a jerky jingle of the chain shank definitely gets their attention when the lips start to wander. *Note: they were not taught to pony with the chiffney, only a plain shank. The bit was added later when the understood the process, and had worn the chiffney in normal leading situations.

On bigger, older, rank horses I won’t hesitate to use a chain over the nose. Usually I don’t have to shank it, just wearing it is enough for the horse to respect me a little more. And I’ve kicked one in the jaw, too, when my repeated requests to “QUIT!” were ignored. On a very, very bad biter I’ve put a figure-8 noseband on (beneath the halter), just to keep the wide-gaping teeth-bared lunging to a minimum.