Poor business practices? Sleipnir Saddlery/Amanda Anderson

Here are Photobucket’s terms, in case you didn’t know:

“By displaying or publishing (“posting”) any Content on or through the Photobucket Services, you hereby grant to Photobucket and other users a non-exclusive, fully paid and royalty-free, worldwide, limited license to use, modify, delete from, add to, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce and translate such Content, including without limitation distributing part or all of the Site in any media formats through any media channels, except Content marked “private” will not be distributed outside the Photobucket Services. Photobucket and/or other Users may copy, print or display publicly available Content outside of the Photobucket Services, including without limitation, via the Site or third party websites or applications (for example, services allowing Users to order prints of Content or t-shirts and similar items containing Content).”

I found the pictures on a public album with a simple search for “saddle fitting” on Photobucket.

[QUOTE=Sleipnir Saddlery;7382090]
“Rider N” - I want to thank you and your friends for calling me names, giving me “the finger”, and insulting me both personally and professionally, in person, at shows, and on social media. I have never, even in high school, seen bullying or bad behavior at this level. You have certainly proven to me that you are not a person anyone should cross, especially since it has been 5 months since we concluded our business relationship, and still this continues, day after day after day. I have never actually seen, outside of Jerry Springer, adults actually behave like this.

That being said, I want to thank you, readers, for your constructive criticisms. I try to learn from mistakes and I certainly try to listen to other people’s opinions.

I spoke with “Rider N” at length and told her that I could not achieve a custom fit, or possibly even a good fit, because of the saddle’s width and because she uses it on several horses. She stated that she understood this. She stated that the saddle needed to be fitted, and she had already sent it away to be flocked three times since buying it less than 5 months prior.

The saddle, despite having wither gussets, is still too wide for her narrow TB mare. I told her that she needed a narrower saddle to achieve a good fit. The saddle was rocking front-to-back, with the pressure points under the stirrup bars, and had collapsed onto the horse’s spine. I added flocking to the wither gussets to prevent rocking, but after riding in it, “Rider N” stated that the horse didn’t like the flocking there, and had me take it out. So the saddle went back to rocking.

During my initial fitting, I spent about 30 minutes getting the flocking right for her horse, and another 45 minutes with a ridden evaluation and tweaking the fit for the horse/rider. Later that day, she loaned it to another rider to use on their horse for a week.

In my practice, I offer a free recheck within 6 weeks after an initial fitting. I do not, however, offer this if the saddle is used on multiple horses. Despite this, I still drove 2.5 hours out to her farm, and did a free recheck for this saddle. I spent 90 minutes at her farm getting the flocking right, including another ridden evaluation. As I was leaving, she stated that she was going to use it to ride on another horse.

The next day, I went to her Greg Best clinic and watched her 2 hour lesson. Mr. Best stated that the horse was “pissy” due to the rider “throwing herself on her forehand over jumps” and leaning to the right. Immediately after the clinic, “Rider N” herself told me that the horse’s back wasn’t sore, even after being ridden for 2 hours.

Ten days after the clinic, she asked me to come out and fix the saddle again for free. Since I had seen the saddle being used on yet another different horse after the Best clinic, I told her that I would be happy to fit the saddle again, but that I was going to charge her my maintenance fitting fee from now on. I told her that I could not continue to fix the issues in the saddle that were being caused by factors outside of my control.

She then told me that the horse was “unrideable”, and that unless I was going continue to fix the saddle for free, that she would post negative and harmful reviews about me. However, two days later, on Facebook I saw that she competed with the horse at a show, with pictures of her ribbons.

It was at this time that I decided to extricate myself from this ridiculous situation. Since then, I have seen multiple negative posts and reviews on public forums such as Photobucket, Facebook, and the one above, with my name and just enough of the story to make it awful. She also told me that she has gone to shows and has made it a point to tell “everyone I can how you ruined my saddle.”

The pictures on my website are my assessment of what can happen to a saddle when the rider leans and what can happen to a softly flocked saddle if you aren’t careful with it. And because of Photobucket’s terms, any public photos have the ability to be used by anyone, for whatever reason, either as merchandise or on another website, royalty and copyright free. Never once have I used “Rider N’s” name, nor have I ever engaged in slander, libel, or defamation, either online in posts or in speaking to others.

On the issue of having a poor experience, I can certainly agree with “Rider N”. I, too, have had a poor experience. Not once, in any of her posts, has she mentioned any of the above, only made it sound like I emptied her bank account and ran over her saddle with my truck.

I could honestly understand her anger if I HAD taken all her money and then completely wrecked her saddle. Instead, I provided my services for less than what it cost me for wool and gas, made sure she understood that I did not think this saddle was a good choice based on multiple issues, followed up at both at shows and clinics, and have been polite despite immature, disrespectful, and frankly scary behavior.

I hope you all have a prosperous and wonderful year. Thank you for listening to the rest of the story.

In response to Poor Business Practices - Sleipnir Saddlery[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Sleipnir Saddlery;7382112]Here are Photobucket’s terms, in case you didn’t know:

“By displaying or publishing (“posting”) any Content on or through the Photobucket Services, you hereby grant to Photobucket and other users a non-exclusive, fully paid and royalty-free, worldwide, limited license to use, modify, delete from, add to, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce and translate such Content, including without limitation distributing part or all of the Site in any media formats through any media channels, except Content marked “private” will not be distributed outside the Photobucket Services. Photobucket and/or other Users may copy, print or display publicly available Content outside of the Photobucket Services, including without limitation, via the Site or third party websites or applications (for example, services allowing Users to order prints of Content or t-shirts and similar items containing Content).”

I found the pictures on a public album with a simple search for “saddle fitting” on Photobucket.[/QUOTE]

for posterity

1 Like

The issue was not about her being unhappy with your performance on the flocking. That is a she said she said matter. However, the verbal bashing of a former client via “article” was extreme and uncalled for let alone “thanking the client”. It was about her unhappiness and extremeness of situation.

I’ve also seen bashing Facebook posts come up and then come down from your business facebook page as have several other local riders. It is a hot little bit of discussion. Infamy is not a good thing, no one wants to risk being the client the op has been turned into because she disagreed with the fitter on the job done.

I find it very hard to believe Mr. Best would discuss a clinician like that with an auditor as it puts him in a place of unproffesionalism and liability. However what someone over hears and then translates by what they consider their own judgment is different. I’ve never heard of Mr best discussing someone who is in his clinic with an auditor. Which is what the article states.

Am I am the only one confused yet??? Not to mention the jerry springer thing is a weeee bit rude.

[QUOTE=Sleipnir Saddlery;7382112]
Here are Photobucket’s terms, in case you didn’t know:

“By displaying or publishing (“posting”) any Content on or through the Photobucket Services, you hereby grant to Photobucket and other users a non-exclusive, fully paid and royalty-free, worldwide, limited license to use, modify, delete from, add to, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce and translate such Content, including without limitation distributing part or all of the Site in any media formats through any media channels, except Content marked “private” will not be distributed outside the Photobucket Services. Photobucket and/or other Users may copy, print or display publicly available Content outside of the Photobucket Services, including without limitation, via the Site or third party websites or applications (for example, services allowing Users to order prints of Content or t-shirts and similar items containing Content).”

I found the pictures on a public album with a simple search for “saddle fitting” on Photobucket.[/QUOTE]

Client (former client?) has made it PATENTLY CLEAR she does not approve of your use of the photos. Who cares what photobucket says about whether you can download the photos from their site-- OP has made it clear she does NOT sanction your use of the photos.

You’re a professional saddle fitter… why are you trolling PB looking for photos for your website?

PB didn’t sanction you sharing all the details of your fitting sessions/the OP’s Greg Best lesson-- did they?

And what’s with the verbiage about the OP allowing you to use the photos/being cooperative in your use of the photos? What you really meant was “thanks for putting these in an online album where I could find them and then pretend you allowed me to use them on my website.”

[QUOTE=MoonLadyIsis;7381929]
She posted a while ago but now her post is deleted. She mentioned the OP by name and everything. I wish I had copied it but was on my phone at the time[/QUOTE]

But I assume you still have the email we get from COTH with the response in your inbox.

Noted! And of course, thank you for your opinions. After reading this thread, I will take them to heart.

For the record, I did not go about taking off a saddle and looking at it for several minutes. I took a photo of a beautiful logo on a saddle pad, and asked the person who owned it where she had it embroidered. Didn’t think that qualified as being pushy, but, hey - you never know anymore.

Done! Thanks for the advice!

I think I need to run to the store for another bottle of wine! This is about to get interesting!

Yes. I currently donate all proceeds (past the cost of business) to horse and veteran related charities. Currently, I support 3 HeroBox soldiers. Unfortunately, I have not received a 501©3 status… pending from the IRS. The business is “labeled” as a NPO with the intent of becoming one as soon as the IRS finishes paperwork.

i (and presumably others) would still like to know why you included the line “A BIG THANK YOU to the rider who graciously offered her pictures and story for the betterment and education of all riders!” on the page which i believe shows this girl’s horse and saddle, when you know she never gave you permission to use them? as of 30 seconds ago, that’s still on your site. i would love to know how you can excuse/explain that away?

[QUOTE=mpsbarnmanager;7365409]
OP, I’m pretty sure I know who you are and I def know who the fitter is. She botched a job on my boarder’s saddle. Boarder has a hard to fit horse and even though the boarder bought a saddle recommended by the fitter, she reflocked it, and when the horse showed signs of discomfort again a few weeks later, she blamed it on the owner not buying a $3k custom saddle, shrugged her off, and told owner to pad up the saddle with towels until she could afford to pay her to re-adjust the saddle. :eek: She also said owner didn’t ride often enough to muscle up horse’s topline and if she did that the saddle would fit better. Sorry about your saddle OP, that really sucks! At least word is getting out not to use her, she is pretty abrasive and obviously unqualified.[/QUOTE]

I know the girl mentioned here and after looking on the website, I see that a positive testimony is posted there even though it isn’t the case. The comment was given in the middle of the process and obviously doesn’t reflect her true opinion.

Having met fitter b in person a few times, she seemed nice but I just had a bad feeling about her, made me feel very cautious. She repeatedly tried to push a saddle (stubben, since she is a dealer) that was totally not right for the rider and the discipline.

[QUOTE=DieBlaueReiterin;7382210]
i would love to know how you can excuse/explain that away?[/QUOTE]

I believe “I am a big unethical liar” is the explanation; not sure if it’d work as an excuse.

Sleipnir, I’m not a pro of any kind. I’m just a rider who takes weekly lessons. If I had a blog, I could say crappy things about someone or put up pictures I ganked from their PB or FB and point out what I saw as their deficiencies - that would make me a crappy person maybe, but on the whole it really wouldn’t ruin my good name because I don’t have a professional good name to ruin. I’m just a random nobody rider.

You’re a pro in the horse world, a world that’s small enough, and getting smaller due to the internet. You really can’t afford to be yanking photos from your ex-clients’ PB’s and posting critiques of them; potential clients will see you in a very negative light, and I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be fitted by you due to the fear that you’d discover my name and start searching out photos on social media.

Seriously, quit it.

I am trying to wrap my head around a business person thinking that:

a) writing a condescending and critical piece on their website that takes a pretty big swipe at a client;
b) using that client’s pictures without permission to support their (tenuous) point;
c) LYING on the website about receiving permission to use said pictures;
d) continuing to lie about it on a bulletin board,

is a clever business strategy.

The only acceptable response from the fitter would have been a public apology to the OP for clearly overstepping her bounds, improperly quoting her in the testimony on the website, and using photos without permission. I don’t give a rat’s behind what Photobucket thinks about it…if you’re going by that logic then all photos on Facebook are also up for grabs, yet you see copyright issues pop up all the time on FB that are dealt with much more professionally than this issue!

The riders effect on saddle fit page needs to be taken down, like, YESTERDAY. It is totally inappropriate that it is still up, even after the OP asked for it to come down, posted here, and then the fitter replied.

I cannot imagine any of my local fitters pulling this kind of nonsense, and if they did, well, I don’t think they’d be in business for long. What kind of a professional calls clients out like that and expects not to have a backlash?

Please refrain from dragging Jerry Springers name into this… he’s actually local where I live, met him several times and he does not discuss the sorry collection of whack jobs he trots out in front of the cameras for a living off the set.

Which shows a heck of a lot more class then any professional openly discussing a client’s issues, real or imagined, on their business website. Especially after being asked to take them down.

Dam, too bad I have to work really early tomorrow, this could merit a box of wine and popcorn before it’s all over.

This issue started with the flocking, and the fact that I told her that using this saddle for multiple (much wider) horses could change the flocking quickly. It has escalated - unbeknownst to me - to the point where in December, when I had a phone conversation with this rider about how we could resolve the issue. I even referred her to another fitter AT MY COST in September when this started.

We were unable to resolve the issue in December because I was unwilling to refund money that she hadn’t spent in the first place. I literally fit her saddle at cost to me twice, because she was a friend of a dear client. The $5 I might have cleared after purchasing the wool and the gas it took to get to and from her house was used to buy supplies for the soldiers I support from HeroBox.

I also told her at the time that because she was using it on multiple horses (and leaned), that the best thing would be to flock it evenly.

The webpage was made in mid-January, after I saw, again, that despite my efforts the rider has continued to post pictures with explanations that are extremely one-sided. I apologize for hurt feelings, the point was to teach people what happens when you ride crooked or use a saddle on multiple horses. I did not post names or mention this rider in any negative fashion. And, thanks to your constructive criticism, I have taken her photos down.

And I agree - to a certain extent - you can flock a saddle to help a rider or slightly asymmetrically to fit a horse. But never to the detriment of the horse.

After the ride at the clinic, I asked Rider N if I could ask GB what he thought of the saddle during her ride, since I couldn’t feel any pinching in the saddle immediately after it was fitted and she went well during our ridden evals. She gave her approval.

As for other comments, like I was taking saddles off random people’s horses, some things are utterly ridiculous. I do NOT, however, allow sensational, blatantly untrue, rude, and inappropriate comments on my page.

Regardless, I would never utilize the services of a company that would refuse to take down photos of a [former] client when asked.

[QUOTE=Sleipnir Saddlery;7382112]
Here are Photobucket’s terms, in case you didn’t know:

“By displaying or publishing (“posting”) any Content on or through the Photobucket Services, you hereby grant to Photobucket and other users a non-exclusive, fully paid and royalty-free, worldwide, limited license to use, modify, delete from, add to, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce and translate such Content, including without limitation distributing part or all of the Site in any media formats through any media channels, except Content marked “private” will not be distributed outside the Photobucket Services. Photobucket and/or other Users may copy, print or display publicly available Content outside of the Photobucket Services, including without limitation, via the Site or third party websites or applications (for example, services allowing Users to order prints of Content or t-shirts and similar items containing Content).”

I found the pictures on a public album with a simple search for “saddle fitting” on Photobucket.[/QUOTE]

Ma’am,
Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences with the rest of us on this thread. I’m sure that you are a very busy person.

BLUF:

  1. The statements made about the rider in question in the Sleipnir Saddlery website article were tactless, to say the very least. Publicly sharing the comments that Mr. Best allegedly made about the rider was also very bad form indeed.

  2. I would be hesitant about choosing your company to be my saddle fitter, due to my concerns that my riding flaws would be publicly exposed on your website for all the world to see, as evidenced by the article presently on your company’s website about the OP.

As a professional/authority figure in the horse industry, you will always be held to a much higher standard of behavior than that of your clients; it has ever been thus.

Thank you for taking the time to read my posting.
V/R
Amber

Amanda – why can’t you see this has NOTHING to do with saddle fit at this point. This has to do with incredibly inappropriate and unethical business practices. If you can’t see that – God help ya.

Please, stop digging yourself a hole.

Again, the only solution at this point is to remove all photos of, associated with, belonging to, or in anyway related to the OP, your former client, and learn from this experience as you seek to grow your business and reputation.

It will not benefit you, right or wrong, to continue addressing the value of your opinion or the quality of your work: this is a non-issue. The problem at this point is the content of your website. The only appropriate and professional choice at this point is to remove that content.