Poor business practices? Sleipnir Saddlery/Amanda Anderson

[mvp]

Questions for both the OP and Sleipner:

To the OP: OK, did you ride several horses in the saddle? Did you respect Sleipner’s limits for saddles fitted to several horses? I don’t remember many horses being part of your OP>

And Sleipner:

[QUOTE=Sleipnir Saddlery;7382090]

The pictures on my website are my assessment of what can happen to a saddle when the rider leans and what can happen to a softly flocked saddle if you aren’t careful with it. And because of Photobucket’s terms, any public photos have the ability to be used by anyone, for whatever reason, either as merchandise or on another website, royalty and copyright free. Never once have I used “Rider N’s” name, nor have I ever engaged in slander, libel, or defamation, either online in posts or in speaking to others. [/QUOTE]

I’ll take your word for a statement of Photobucket’s policies, if a badly-written one since objects like photographs don’t have the ability to do jack. But you must admit that taking these from Photobucket is not the same as explaining that the OP gave you explicit permission to use them. You are taking advantage of her there.

[californianinkansas]

[QUOTE=starrunner;7382321]
Regardless, I would never utilize the services of a company that would refuse to take down photos of a [former] client when asked.[/QUOTE]

Starrunner, you are exactly right.:yes:

[findeight]

[QUOTE=Sleipnir Saddlery;7382315]
This issue started with the flocking, and the fact that I told her that using this saddle for multiple (much wider) horses could change the flocking quickly. It has escalated - unbeknownst to me - to the point where in December, when I had a phone conversation with this rider about how we could resolve the issue. I even referred her to another fitter AT MY COST in September when this started.

We were unable to resolve the issue in December because I was unwilling to refund money that she hadn’t spent in the first place. I literally fit her saddle at cost to me twice, because she was a friend of a dear client. The $5 I might have cleared after purchasing the wool and the gas it took to get to and from her house was used to buy supplies for the soldiers I support from HeroBox.

I also told her at the time that because she was using it on multiple horses (and leaned), that the best thing would be to flock it evenly.

The webpage was made in mid-January, after I saw, again, that despite my efforts the rider has continued to post pictures with explanations that are extremely one-sided. I apologize for hurt feelings, the point was to teach people what happens when you ride crooked or use a saddle on multiple horses. I did not post names or mention this rider in any negative fashion. And, thanks to your constructive criticism, I have taken her photos down.

And I agree - to a certain extent - you can flock a saddle to help a rider or slightly asymmetrically to fit a horse. But never to the detriment of the horse.

After the ride at the clinic, I asked Rider N if I could ask GB what he thought of the saddle during her ride, since I couldn’t feel any pinching in the saddle immediately after it was fitted and she went well during our ridden evals. She gave her approval.

As for other comments, like I was taking saddles off random people’s horses, some things are utterly ridiculous. I do NOT, however, allow sensational, blatantly untrue, rude, and inappropriate comments on my page.[/QUOTE]

REALLY? You asked her if you could specifically and privately discuss the saddle with Greg Best, she specifically gave you permission and, as you earlier stated, he said to you she “threw herself on the forehand”? You want to stand by that claim? IIRC Greg has occasionally posted here and some COTHERS do know him. Good possibility that claim could be verified.

BTW she has posted videos of herself here on several times and I can’t see any severe throwing on the forehand going on. Course I am not a professional saddle fitter, just a rider for 45 years so maybe it’s just me…

[lovemybays]

"i apologize for hurt feelings, the point was to teach people what happens when you ride crooked or use a saddle on multiple horses. "

You posted it about the upset former client… and THANKED HER. That is ballsy. How was that not intended as hurtful you didn’t ask the ops permission doubtful she would have allowed herself to be made an example of like that. When a company or publisher of an article uses a person as an example with permission I do believe that is how a lot of law suits begin.

Seems risky… rational decisions are not made during times of high emotions. “Article” was definitely emotional not rational. Just my honest opinion.

[Starhouse]

You may have taken the photos down, but it still has the following blurbs:

A BIG THANK YOU to the rider who graciously offered her pictures and story for the betterment and education of all riders!

She’s made it pretty clear that she did NOT offer her photos and does NOT want this story online.

[I]Because the rider leans heavily to the right, stands in the stirrups, and places most of her weight downwards and against the left side, she abnormally compresses the left side, especially under the stirrup bars (where the majority of the weight is borne when in 2-point).

The saving grace, for this saddle, was that it was still remaining in the middle of the horse’s back. The rider will eventually tip the saddle to the right, and have to have a fitter out several times a year to “band-aid” the problem. The horse may also experience chiropractic issues; indeed, this horse was seen frequently by a vet/chiro for neck, rib, and hip subluxations. The fix is IN THE RIDER. Fixing the “saddle” repeatedly does NOT solve the problem (and just costs you more money).[/I]

Honestly, at this point in the page, it’s pretty clear what your opinion of her riding is…no need to grind it in. This just reads as petty to me. Totally unprofessional.

SADDLE FITTER’S CHECK: Just to make sure the problem was diagnosed correctly, the fitter spoke to the Olympic clinician directly after he gave this rider a 2 hour lesson (with the horse/saddle combination pictured here). He stated that it was indeed a rider issue; the rider throws herself forward and to the side on the flat and over jumps. His fix was to have the rider go back to basics, learn to sit at the canter, to jump smaller and to almost be “left behind” over jumps. When the rider followed his advice, the horse was more relaxed.

Oh great, so if I have you out to fit my saddle, are you going to follow me to a clinic/lesson, talk to the trainer, and then write all the negative feedback on the internet about me?

Does anyone go to a clinic or lesson thinking they’re god’s gift to the equestrian world? Usually we have things we know we need to work on, and that’s why we invest time and money into getting help from trainers!

OUR THANKS: To the rider who graciously allowed us to post this for the betterment and education of all riders.

I just find it hilarious that this is written twice when it’s totally untrue.

So, so so inappropriate for this to be put there in the first place, and totally outrageous that it’s still there.

And don’t even get me started on your first reply, the one that got deleted.

[Bogie]

From Photobucket’s technical support site:

Sadly, we are not in a position to grant you permission to use a photo or video you found Photobucket for any outside purpose, commercial or otherwise.

Photobucket is a UGC (user generated content) site. Our registered members are responsible for the content they upload, not Photobucket. Members who post images represent that they own the images they post. Users grant Photobucket a limited license to display the content at Photobucket.com, but retain the copyrights in the files they upload. Photobucket is not in a position to grant a license to use any of the works that appear on the site. That right remains with the copyright holder.

You should also be aware that once content is removed from Photobucket, or is in a private account, it is no longer considered to be in the public domain:

“after you remove your Content from the Photobucket Website we will cease distribution as soon as practicable, and at such time when distribution ceases, the license to such Content will terminate. If after we have distributed your Content outside the Photobucket Website you change the Content’s privacy setting to “private,” we will cease any further distribution of such “private” Content outside the Photobucket Website as soon as practicable.”

Even if it is legally okay to use a photo you found on photobucket without crediting the copyright owner, it is morally repugnant, especially if you are using a former client’s images to write a disparaging article about her.

[cwdridr]

you guys are unreal

seriously, do you really want a fitter who is just willing to take your money even if the saddle isn’t the issue? i’ve read this entire thread, and yes, i think that the rider issue page was a bit upfront, but the rider was never named. from what i gather, this saddle fitter went way out of her way to make sure that she wasn’t doing something wrong.

the classical riders and trainers think exactly like this fitter. i’ve ridden with GM and several other big time trainers in clinics, and every one of them demands straightness in the rider, regardless of the “oh i can’t today, my back hurts” excuse. american riders think they can just buy a product or do something besides practicing to make their riding better.

europeans think americans are crap for exactly this reason. you can’t handle someone leveling with you. it’s always an excuse for why you aren’t winning, instead of the real reason of “i just didn’t practice hard enough”. europeans ride better because they are taught to quit making excuses. most people are so focused on how they can talk crap about other riders instead of focusing on their own riding.

and if you think someone is overbearing because they teach rider safety and balance and how the saddle can hurt the horse, then please go back to the butt hurt side of the ring.

[beowulf]

Houseguests! I knew there was a reason I was still on COTH at 2:30 AM!

[Frizzle]

[QUOTE=cwdridr;7382731]
then please go back to the butt hurt side of the ring.[/QUOTE]

And what side of the ring would that be? I mean, is it like “Enter at A, halt at X, trot at Butt Hurt”?

:lol:

[cwdridr]

lol

more like enter at A, attempt to halt at X, fall off horse, blame trainer/horse/saddle/breeches/sun/rain/bugs/flower box/camera/cameraman/judge’s box/judge’s car/other horses/no other horses around/umbrella/shiny object 3 miles away/having spurs on/not having spurs on…

then go buy a product designed to stop you from falling off. oh well, at least it might pick up the economy.

[cwdridr]

and ehrmygawd! this fitter actually asked for advice of GB? seriously. what was she thinking! fitters should know everything all the time and never ever try to learn anything. especially from people like GB who know a thing about good riding.

or at least thats what most of them act like. my last saddle guy came out, charged me $750, took my saddle for 3 weeks, and has never called me back. saddle showed up, and ive got dry spots in some areas and i don’t know if it’s a problem. called and called but he won’t be back for 6 months. it’s not like he’s jumping to make things right.

seriously. im amazed at the butt hurt going on around here. over there, by C.

[bluebuckets]

Having worked with world-class fitters and saddlers, I can say that the behavior of Ms. Amanda is far less than professional. Far, far less than professional. I am fairly certain the college students who work the front desk at my gym are more professional.
Client information is not to be disclosed FOR ANY REASON without the client’s express consent. Many in the equestrian industry value their privacy a great deal. Violating it is not just wrong, it is poor business practice.
Also, it is a telling sign of lack of knowledge when a professional attempts to advise clients in an area they do not have expertise in. For example, I would not want my farrier attempting to teach me to ride a half-pass. I welcome my farrier’s comments on anything to do with my horse’s feet, including comments/questions on footing, performance, soundness, and diet, but let’s face it, I pay my farrier to shoe my horse, not develop and run my horse’s program.
I wouldn’t want my vet coaching me at a horse show. My vet is wonderful, and incredibly knowledgeable about equine health and wellness. He’s not qualified to walk a course with me and help me determine whether or not to add up in the line.
Same thing here. A (mid-level at best, imho from what I’ve seen on the website) saddle fitter/adjuster is in no way qualified to offer training advice to a client. They can comment on the way the saddle may or may not affect the horse’s performance, but other than that, they have no business commenting on the rider’s ability.

[OTTB-HP]

I’m calling TROLL alert on Cwdridr. Ironic that this person only has 4 posts and the original is in this thread. Second, I find it interesting that this person is from Florida where said saddle fitter originates from with her former company Centaur that was dissolved a few years ago. Third, with a fair amount of research, I found old posts on social media where said saddle fitter talks about visiting with a friend from Florida that now works with CWD.

Think it’s possible said saddle fitter called in for back up? Gee, I wonder!

All BS aside cwdridr, the point is that this saddle fitter acted completely inappropriately, did not respect a former client’s wishes and publicly humiliated her on a site. Maybe said saddle fitter did talk to GB during the clinic but based on her facebook site it appears she was too busy oogling over his butt and how she wished she could have married him to pay attention to anything else.

[findeight]

[QUOTE=cwdridr;7382731]
seriously, do you really want a fitter who is just willing to take your money even if the saddle isn’t the issue? i’ve read this entire thread, and yes, i think that the rider issue page was a bit upfront, but the rider was never named. from what i gather, this saddle fitter went way out of her way to make sure that she wasn’t doing something wrong.

the classical riders and trainers think exactly like this fitter. i’ve ridden with GM and several other big time trainers in clinics, and every one of them demands straightness in the rider, regardless of the “oh i can’t today, my back hurts” excuse. american riders think they can just buy a product or do something besides practicing to make their riding better.

europeans think americans are crap for exactly this reason. you can’t handle someone leveling with you. it’s always an excuse for why you aren’t winning, instead of the real reason of “i just didn’t practice hard enough”. europeans ride better because they are taught to quit making excuses. most people are so focused on how they can talk crap about other riders instead of focusing on their own riding.

and if you think someone is overbearing because they teach rider safety and balance and how the saddle can hurt the horse, then please go back to the butt hurt side of the ring.[/QUOTE]

For posterity, and your morning entertainment before you go out and ride like the crappy Americans Europeans ridicule while talking smack about other riders…oh, wait, the saddle fitter is the only person talking down a rider so you’ll just have to go ride like crap and whine.

[ako]

The absolute stupidly of some “business people” will never cease to amaze me. I guess anybody can go into business, the real challenge is in making it work over the long run. And THAT doesn’t happen by treating clients like [crap]!!

Why in the world not apologize and take the pictures down? I mean, really, why on earth would a fitter want (steal) pictures of a disgruntled former client on their website as an example? Surely she could have instead extracted the information into a more generic example, if she must? But why steal pictures and insult clients’ riding on the site? How stupid is that?!

I’m not buying the whole schtick about being in business just to give all the $ to charities.

The whole thing sounds pretty delusional.

I could care less whether the OP used the saddle on multiple horses or whether she leans, or what she does with the saddle. The issue here is that a fitter stole her pictures and used them on her site. There are no excuses for that!!!

[vxf111]

Houseguests, the mark of a true professional!

[californianinkansas]

[QUOTE=beowulf;7382736]
Houseguests! I knew there was a reason I was still on COTH at 2:30 AM!

eta: “butt hurt!” oho! Mine’s hurt from falling on my butt laughing so hard… )’:[/QUOTE]

Oooh… Houseguests! :winkgrin: And even better, a Houseguest with unusually poor punctuation, with an even worse ability to put together a cogent, logical written argument. :applause: Bless his or her little heart.

I need to run to the grocery store to stock up on Diet Coke and popcorn. Be right back!

[californianinkansas]

[QUOTE=bluebuckets;7382754]
Having worked with world-class fitters and saddlers, I can say that the behavior of Ms. Amanda is far less than professional. Far, far less than professional. I am fairly certain the college students who work the front desk at my gym are more professional.
Client information is not to be disclosed FOR ANY REASON without the client’s express consent. Many in the equestrian industry value their privacy a great deal. Violating it is not just wrong, it is poor business practice.
Also, it is a telling sign of lack of knowledge when a professional attempts to advise clients in an area they do not have expertise in. For example, I would not want my farrier attempting to teach me to ride a half-pass. I welcome my farrier’s comments on anything to do with my horse’s feet, including comments/questions on footing, performance, soundness, and diet, but let’s face it, I pay my farrier to shoe my horse, not develop and run my horse’s program.
I wouldn’t want my vet coaching me at a horse show. My vet is wonderful, and incredibly knowledgeable about equine health and wellness. He’s not qualified to walk a course with me and help me determine whether or not to add up in the line.
Same thing here. A (mid-level at best, imho from what I’ve seen on the website) saddle fitter/adjuster is in no way qualified to offer training advice to a client. They can comment on the way the saddle may or may not affect the horse’s performance, but other than that, they have no business commenting on the rider’s ability.[/QUOTE]

Bluebuckets,
Your post is a classy, articulate, and professional summary of the concerns that we all have with Ms. Anderson’s behavior towards the OP. bows respectfully
Best,
Amber

As we would say in my line of work: The saddle fitter needs to stay in her lane. Whisky Tango Foxtrot, over.

I am actively looking for a saddle that fits both my very hard to fit Arabian gelding and my hard to fit self (long femurs, wide distance between sitting bones; probably going with ReactorPanel). I can tell you right now that as a direct result of Ms. Anderson’s unprofessional behavior towards the OP, I will not employ Ms. Anderson et. al. for my saddle fitting needs, nor will I recommend Sleipnir Saddlery to anyone.

[californianinkansas]

[QUOTE=cwdridr;7382750]
and ehrmygawd! this fitter actually asked for advice of GB? seriously. what was she thinking! fitters should know everything all the time and never ever try to learn anything. especially from people like GB who know a thing about good riding.

or at least thats what most of them act like. my last saddle guy came out, charged me $750, took my saddle for 3 weeks, and has never called me back. saddle showed up, and ive got dry spots in some areas and i don’t know if it’s a problem. called and called but he won’t be back for 6 months. it’s not like he’s jumping to make things right.

seriously. im amazed at the butt hurt going on around here. over there, by C.[/QUOTE]

Dear Sir or Ma’am,
Per the precedent established by Ms. April Winchell on Regretsy.com, convention states that “butt hurt” is written as one word, i.e., butthurt. That is all.
Kind Regards,
Amber

[vxf111]

Alter tips for idiots…

-If you’re known to be a rep for brand A, no one would EVER SUSPECT IT WAS YOU (or a buddy) if brand B was in your screen name. You so sneeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaky!

-If you’re known to be in state A and you register an account as being from state B, it will befuddle everyone.

-If you normally post with normal spelling, punctuation, and writing style-- have your alter speak in pidgeon… it’ll throw everyone off the trail!

-If you sign on right when your regular screen name signs off, no one will notice.

-If you choose the contentious thread as your first post and the only thread you post on, no one will notice. Create an account and join the thread only AFTER you feel you’ve lost the argument on your real screen name.

-If you defect to a different subject, everyone else will forget what it was they were originally talking about.

-Using insults give you credibility.