My understanding is the the OP’s asymmetry is due to an spine injury; thus, it is in extreme poor taste to publicly chastise the OP over something that is not her fault, i.e., not due to laziness or sloth.
When you point one finger, three fingers point back at you; Sleipnir Saddlery would do well to remember this axiom.
[QUOTE=vxf111;7383011]
Alter tips for idiots…
-If you’re known to be a rep for brand A, no one would EVER SUSPECT IT WAS YOU (or a buddy) if brand B was in your screen name. You so sneeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaky!
-If you’re known to be in state A and you register an account as being from state B, it will befuddle everyone.
-If you normally post with normal spelling, punctuation, and writing style-- have your alter speak in pidgeon… it’ll throw everyone off the trail!
-If you sign on right when your regular screen name signs off, no one will notice.
-If you choose the contentious thread as your first post and the only thread you post on, no one will notice. Create an account and join the thread only AFTER you feel you’ve lost the argument on your real screen name.
-If you defect to a different subject, everyone else will forget what it was they were originally talking about.
-Using insults give you credibility.[/QUOTE]
Vxf111,
You win the internets. I am in awe of your ability to snark.:winkgrin:
[QUOTE=Sleipnir Saddlery;7382155]
This issue started with the flocking, and the fact that I told her that using this saddle for multiple (much wider) horses could change the flocking quickly. It has escalated - unbeknownst to me - to the point where in December, when I had a phone conversation with this rider about how we could resolve the issue. I even referred her to another fitter AT MY COST in September when this started.
We were unable to resolve the issue in December because I was unwilling to refund money that she hadn’t spent in the first place. I literally fit her saddle at cost to me twice, because she was a friend of a dear client. The $5 I might have cleared after purchasing the wool and the gas it took to get to and from her house was used to buy supplies for the soldiers I support from HeroBox.
I also told her at the time that because she was using it on multiple horses (and leaned), that the best thing would be to flock it evenly.
The webpage was made in mid-January, after I saw, again, that despite my efforts the rider has continued to post pictures with explanations that are extremely one-sided. I apologize for hurt feelings, the point was to teach people what happens when you ride crooked or use a saddle on multiple horses. I did not post names or mention this rider in any negative fashion. And, thanks to your constructive criticism, I have taken her photos down.
And I agree - to a certain extent - you can flock a saddle to help a rider or slightly asymmetrically to fit a horse. But never to the detriment of the horse.
After the ride at the clinic, I asked Rider N if I could ask GB what he thought of the saddle during her ride, since I couldn’t feel any pinching in the saddle immediately after it was fitted and she went well during our ridden evals. She gave her approval.
As for other comments, like I was taking saddles off random people’s horses, some things are utterly ridiculous. I do NOT, however, allow sensational, blatantly untrue, rude, and inappropriate comments on my page. [/QUOTE]
A few points.
One, I’ve never called her names, given her the finger, or insulted in person, at shows etc. I’ve NOT blasted her all over social media. I never posted anything on my personal page regarding her, nor on any of the plethora local “horse” related sites.
I’ve made two posts on Facebook, both on this fitters business page. One on her “refund policy” when it was posted prior to it being removed, then following her extremely abrasive, bullying, and unprofessional phone conversation with me, I left a review on her facebook page (which included a link to my photobucket pictures). After she removed her address to eliminate reviews, I did not do anything further. I ONLY posted to COTH after I saw the website post with my stolen pictures, and ONLY on COTH, despite belonging to 4 different forums.
The saddle was flocked twice prior to Ms. Anderson working on it. Once about 3 weeks after it was delivered as my “initial” flocking by the fitter in early June (fresh from the factory). Then in August, the flocking on the gussets had fallen down/became compacted so I mailed it off to Mike Scott (as my original fitter was out of the country) to get flocking added and stitching to the bottom of the gussets to prevent it from happening in the future. Since my saddle was “distance flocked” I contracted with Ms. Anderson at a horse show I was attending to tweak it less then a month after that since I wanted it to be perfect for my clinic (big laugh right?).
I never stated initially that I wanted the flocking removed from the gussets, in fact, at the show it was flocked unevenly and I brought it up then and it was fixed at that time. My mare is NOT narrow, and the saddle fits her perfectly with the addition of a very small gel pad. The bare tree was a perfect fit, previous saddles were all wide/extra wide, we discussed at the time of the initial fitting the logistics of getting the tree widened if it became necessary since my mare was a rising 6 year old and is still maturing.
I did lend it to a rider at the show where it was fitted. It was the daughter of a friend of mine, she was saddle shopping, so at the previous show, we had started talking about the BC saddles, and I told her she could borrow it at the upcoming show to see what her daughter thought. I still allowed her to because the saddle was being “tweaked” and figured a few flat classes with a 80 lb rider couldn’t hurt. I then allowed another friend who was also saddle shopping to borrow it (who went out and purchased a BC saddle) after the saddle was rocking and making my mare sore, and I knew that Amanda was coming out again to work on the saddle prior to my clinic so figured it couldn’t hurt. None of these horses were wider then my mare.
I own one other horse that goes in this saddle with the addition of some shim pads. He’s coming back from a severe SI/hip injury and hasn’t been ridden by me since March 2012. He’s been ridden a few times by a little girl and my son mainly walking, but they’ve used a 16" collegiate saddle that fits him (but there ain’t no way I can cram my fat butt into that saddle). I did discuss riding my sisters mare prior to the clinic since she (my sister) had someone coming out to look at her that weekend, but after Amanda advised against it, skipped, and went and watched the first day of the Greg Best clinic instead.
At the time that the issue with the flocking was brought up, the saddle had not been used on any other horses since the second fitting trip, and just the two rides on different horses inbetween fittings, but NOTHING since the final fitting. I HADN’T used the saddle on a different horse following the clinic, so NO idea where she saw it being used.
Greg brought up my tendency to tip and get forward over fences at my clinic, an issue I’ve struggled with for years. He did not overly hammer my leaning habit (I don’t recall us talking about it at all other then when I brought it up and he stated it was improved since last year). I’ve cliniced with him numerous times since I was a teen, and he’s aware of my spinal issue. In fact, while he’s recommended his “looped stirrup” exercise, my “leaning” has never been poor enough that he’s had me do it in a clinic, just recommended it as a regular exercise at home. As far as back soreness post clinic….I hopped off after my clinic and said “there’s something wrong with this saddle” We did check her back, and she was not back sore. I didn’t discover that the issue was her shoulders until 2 rides later.
I’ve also NEVER made any threats at all. Here’s the chat transcript from the time I discovered the issue with the flocking to my final message. I tried to do screen caps however the writing was too small. but if someone wants to see those, just PM me and I’ll share 
Promise I didn’t edit anything!!! I tried to remain professional and honestly thought I succeeded. You will also note that she never offered to have another fitter take a look at her own cost eye roll
Now I will say, that when I initially found the issues, I thought that the gussets were over flocked, and thus making it sore. The wonderful fitter who helped me is the one that pointed out it was do to a lack of flocking under the pommel, and why she was most likely getting sore (weight of the saddle being shifted down onto her shoulders).
Now for the show.
I spoke with one of the fitters on this site during the whole issue. She said that she thought it was an issue with a lack of flocking under the pommel, which was shifting the weight onto her shoulders. I did a trial ride the Friday before the show using the recommended set up (front shim pads) and she was back to her old self. I will admit that I took her to the show the next day, however, there must have been residual soreness that was masked by bute Friday (from her Thursday dose), because she was horrible, pissed and bucking (we don’t school, so this wasn’t apparent until I got in the show ring). We placed last in our classes (small classes), and I withdrew from the final class. I never even picked up my ribbons (why bother) let alone posted pictures.
Now I admit showing her was stupid. I thought we had a decent bandaid, but obviously I didn’t. That’s when I opted to treat her with robaxin to really knock out that soreness before trying again.
I did lose my temper during our telephone conversation when she told me that she would give me a refund if I didn’t mention this for 6 months, however, my exact words were that at that show everyone that asked “what was wrong with her” I was sure to show them my saddle and tell them exactly what happened and how my saddle was messed up (never said ruined….its just flocking, which can be fixed).
And adding the review I had left on her page. Granted, this was one of my “drafts” since I didn’t keep a copy of my final review…but enough to get the idea
~
~
~
I hired Amanda to touch up flock my mares custom Black Country saddle in August. She had lost some weight and muscling since the saddle was fitted in May, so I wanted to see if we could flock up the front and ideally eliminate the extra pad. This saddle had been reflocked twice since my initial fitting, so just needed tweaking. She was at a horse show I attended, and worked on my saddle after my hunter classes. I rode in one division, she said due to the amount of flocking added, she would need to do a touch up. I subsequently allowed two friends to ride in it (one time each) since they were saddle shopping (what she later stated was the basis for my saddle issues).
She came to my farm 2 weeks later to address a rocking issue after her initial fitting that was making my mare back sore (that was not present prior to her fitting at the show). She flocked up the front gussets to address that. I then rode in a clinic with an Olympic trainer the following day. My ride was horrible, one of the worst rides I’ve had with her. My rides following the clinic continued to deteriorate, she was stiff and stilted through the shoulders, not moving freely, and not jumping correctly. After a second attempt I noticed she was intensely sore on her shoulders with muscle spasms that were addressed with robaxin and bute due to their severity.
I then took a closer look at the saddle and noticed it was flocked unevenly, the gussets were flocked quite firm, with one being moreso then the other. There was no flocking under the pommel on the front half of the saddle to support the weight of the rider, so the weight was being driven down onto the shoulders. There was a giant bulge in the flocking on the right, coupled with a huge hole in the panel where there was no flocking (quite apparent even in pictures). When another, independent fitter reflocked, she also found two knots of wool that she likened to a pebble in your shoe…not good for a sensitive TB mare!
When I requested that Amanda address these issues, she refused to do so for travel fees and wanted an additional $85 (on top of the $150 I had already paid her). After debating it, I decided to return the saddle to the fitter that had done my initial fitting (via mail due to the distance). After the saddle was returned, I had my horse back, moving freely through the shoulders, jumping happily and willingly in excellent form, we ended up reserve champion at the last show in three divisions! Drastic contrast to the post Amanda fitting where we had to withdraw from our classes and were unable to complete due to bucking.
I later spoke with Amanda and requested a refund per a refund policy that was posted on her site. She first stated that she would consider it if she didn’t hear anything negative from me from anyone that I had relayed my experience too. Then stated that if I returned the “$80 worth of wool she had used she would issue me a full refund”. When I asked if I could get a refund less the $80, she then backtracked and refused that, stating that she needed travel fees as well.
I was then accused of being unreasonable, and going around telling people that she had “Screwed me over” words I’ve never in my life used (confusing me with another dissatisfied customer?). She again stated that since I had allowed someone else to use the saddle between fittings, she was not responsible for any fitting issues…even though there were DRASTIC issues that could not be explained by a few light rides (especially considering she had reflocked the saddle after those rides!). She also stated that she can’t fix the fact that I ride unevenly so am shifting my flocking (in three rides no less!). In summary, not only did I have a horrible experience during a much anticipated clinic with an Olympic rider (and was out that money), plus the $150 to get my saddle “tweaked” but also the cost of getting the saddle fixed from another fitter.
Here is a link to the pictures of my poor saddle after Amanda flocked it for the second time. My emails to/from her requesting her to address it, and the email from my original fitter after receiving that saddle. http://s96.photobucket.com/user/nicolemorgans/library/POOR%20EXPERIENCE%20Sleipnir%20Saddle%20Fitting
ETA: I had later edited the name on the link to make it shorter. Here’s teh correct link if anyone wants to see it. http://s96.photobucket.com/user/nicolemorgans/library/Sleipnir%20Saddle%20post%20flock
Its the same pictures for the most part I’ve posted earlier
The last link didn’t work to photobucket…
Either way, I think the fitter has outed herself and her business enough that continuing with the thread at this point is purely for entertainment value. It’s already attracted Mod1, who has edited some language in a post or two, and I suspect will be locked soon.
[QUOTE=Alterwhattodo?;7383094]
A few points.
One, I’ve never called her names, given her the finger, or insulted in person, at shows etc. I’ve NOT blasted her all over social media. I never posted anything on my personal page regarding her, nor on any of the plethora local “horse” related sites.
I’ve made two posts on Facebook, both on this fitters business page. One on her “refund policy” when it was posted prior to it being removed, then following her extremely abrasive, bullying, and unprofessional phone conversation with me, I left a review on her facebook page (which included a link to my photobucket pictures). After she removed her address to eliminate reviews, I did not do anything further. I ONLY posted to COTH after I saw the website post with my stolen pictures, and ONLY on COTH, despite belonging to 4 different forums.
The saddle was flocked twice prior to Ms. Anderson working on it. Once about 3 weeks after it was delivered as my “initial” flocking by the fitter in early June (fresh from the factory). Then in August, the flocking on the gussets had fallen down/became compacted so I mailed it off to Mike Scott (as my original fitter was out of the country) to get flocking added and stitching to the bottom of the gussets to prevent it from happening in the future. Since my saddle was “distance flocked” I contracted with Ms. Anderson at a horse show I was attending to tweak it less then a month after that since I wanted it to be perfect for my clinic (big laugh right?).
I never stated initially that I wanted the flocking removed from the gussets, in fact, at the show it was flocked unevenly and I brought it up then and it was fixed at that time. My mare is NOT narrow, and the saddle fits her perfectly with the addition of a very small gel pad. The bare tree was a perfect fit, previous saddles were all wide/extra wide, we discussed at the time of the initial fitting the logistics of getting the tree widened if it became necessary since my mare was a rising 6 year old and is still maturing.
I did lend it to a rider at the show where it was fitted. It was the daughter of a friend of mine, she was saddle shopping, so at the previous show, we had started talking about the BC saddles, and I told her she could borrow it at the upcoming show to see what her daughter thought. I still allowed her to because the saddle was being “tweaked” and figured a few flat classes with a 80 lb rider couldn’t hurt. I then allowed another friend who was also saddle shopping to borrow it (who went out and purchased a BC saddle) after the saddle was rocking and making my mare sore, and I knew that Amanda was coming out again to work on the saddle prior to my clinic so figured it couldn’t hurt. None of these horses were wider then my mare.
I own one other horse that goes in this saddle with the addition of some shim pads. He’s coming back from a severe SI/hip injury and hasn’t been ridden by me since March 2012. He’s been ridden a few times by a little girl and my son mainly walking, but they’ve used a 16" collegiate saddle that fits him (but there ain’t no way I can cram my fat butt into that saddle). I did discuss riding my sisters mare prior to the clinic since she (my sister) had someone coming out to look at her that weekend, but after Amanda advised against it, skipped, and went and watched the first day of the Greg Best clinic instead.
At the time that the issue with the flocking was brought up, the saddle had not been used on any other horses since the second fitting trip, and just the two rides on different horses inbetween fittings, but NOTHING since the final fitting. I HADN’T used the saddle on a different horse following the clinic, so NO idea where she saw it being used.
Greg brought up my tendency to tip and get forward over fences at my clinic, an issue I’ve struggled with for years. He did not overly hammer my leaning habit (I don’t recall us talking about it at all other then when I brought it up and he stated it was improved since last year). I’ve cliniced with him numerous times since I was a teen, and he’s aware of my spinal issue. In fact, while he’s recommended his “looped stirrup” exercise, my “leaning” has never been poor enough that he’s had me do it in a clinic, just recommended it as a regular exercise at home. As far as back soreness post clinic….I hopped off after my clinic and said “there’s something wrong with this saddle” We did check her back, and she was not back sore. I didn’t discover that the issue was her shoulders until 2 rides later.
I’ve also NEVER made any threats at all. Here’s the chat transcript from the time I discovered the issue with the flocking to my final message. I tried to do screen caps however the writing was too small. but if someone wants to see those, just PM me and I’ll share Promise I didn’t edit anything!!! I tried to remain professional and honestly thought I succeeded. You will also note that she never offered to have another fitter take a look at her own cost eye roll
Now I will say, that when I initially found the issues, I thought that the gussets were over flocked, and thus making it sore. The wonderful fitter who helped me is the one that pointed out it was do to a lack of flocking under the pommel, and why she was most likely getting sore (weight of the saddle being shifted down onto her shoulders).
Now for the show.
I spoke with one of the fitters on this site during the whole issue. She said that she thought it was an issue with a lack of flocking under the pommel, which was shifting the weight onto her shoulders. I did a trial ride the Friday before the show using the recommended set up (front shim pads) and she was back to her old self. I will admit that I took her to the show the next day, however, there must have been residual soreness that was masked by bute Friday (from her Thursday dose), because she was horrible, pissed and bucking (we don’t school, so this wasn’t apparent until I got in the show ring). We placed last in our classes (small classes), and I withdrew from the final class. I never even picked up my ribbons (why bother) let alone posted pictures.
Now I admit showing her was stupid. I thought we had a decent bandaid, but obviously I didn’t. That’s when I opted to treat her with robaxin to really knock out that soreness before trying again.
I did lose my temper during our telephone conversation when she told me that she would give me a refund if I didn’t mention this for 6 months, however, my exact words were that at that show everyone that asked “what was wrong with her” I was sure to show them my saddle and tell them exactly what happened and how my saddle was messed up (never said ruined….its just flocking, which can be fixed).[/QUOTE]
I work in dispute mediation (I’m not an attorney). I wish that all my clients were as calm and reasoned as you. You should be commended for never using emotional language.
I read the transcript. Um… can placing a saddle on a saddle rack really change the flocking? That doesn’t sound congruent with basic physics. If this is something that can happen, I’d really like to know more about it, as I’m in the midst of saddle-fitting heck.
Best Regards,
Amber
Amber,
Thank you…I’m really trying hard! I started to type that post up last night and was like…you know what, long day, killer lesson with a new trainer AND two glasses of wine, take a step back and sleep on it! ROFL.
I’ve heard of some saddle racks impacting the flocking, particularly if you stack saddles on those cheap metal racks…the bottom saddle will have quite a bit of weight pushing on that flocking. I’ve got a special rack though that’s supposed to minimize that affect, plus I always put the saddle over a thick half pad to provide further cushion for those delicate panels!
ETA: I did verify with the Mod’s that putting her name in this thread wouldn’t cause the thread to get closed
Yes, a saddle rack can affect flocking and even foam. The cheap metal ones are some of the worst. It’s just like if you were sitting in the edge of a lawn chair or some such. You get up with an indentation in the back of your thigh. Your leg bounces back, the flocking on your saddle does not. Over time, it can be an issue. This is why I prefer would rack with 1 x 4s that make full contact over the panel.
I read the transcripts and all of the posts here. To be very honest, I think that the saddle fitter performed as one would expect from a business professional in the dialogue shared from facebook and do not think that expecting someone to pay for one’s time is too far a stretch.
As far as not liking the job and expecting to get it fixed for free…I think that the saddle fitter was in the right about that as well. For instance, if you have a farrier out who has good recommendations and who is trained to do the job and then he sets the shoes a way you don’t like or messes up the angles so your horse is off for a while, you don’t call him up and immediately ask for him to come fix it again for free. He did what he advertised and you bought a service. You chalk it up to…this guy did not do a good job, lesson learned, don’t recommend him ect.
As far as I am concerned, she did her job, OP did not like it for good reason, and yet this relationship persisted for some unknown reason? (like she would approach the saddle differently the next time?)
As far as the personal anecdotes about the fitter as well as the poor form showed by posting the pics on her website and the comments here, yes that is way out of line.
However, if it was me I would have given her one shot to fix my saddle in a way that worked out. If I didn’t like her work I would have moved on and told her that I was finding someone else…not carried on with her to the point where she did something worthy of a COTH post with houseguests.
Now, now.
You people taking pot shots at Sleipnir or the snarky formal/informal “Ms. Amanda” version of her name are no better than anyone else you are calling unprofessional.
While I agree with most of your post, ako, I think you should care that the OP wanted a saddle fitter to flock a saddle to fit multiple horses, not just the one.
Look, if you took out enough wool to have the saddle fit the widest of the OP’s beasts, how could you expect the saddle to work, too, for the tall-withered one?
I think that’s a harder job than fitting one saddle to one horse/rider.
Also, the phrase is “I could NOT care less.” If you could care less…. then you care!
[QUOTE=ako;7382853]
I could care less whether the OP used the saddle on multiple horses or whether she leans, or what she does with the saddle. The issue here is that a fitter stole her pictures and used them on her site. There are no excuses for that!!![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=mvp;7383355]
Also, the phrase is “I could NOT care less.” If you could care less…. then you care![/QUOTE]
The translation is along the lines that I COULD care less if I really, really tried but I can’t be bothered to devote that much energy - I could care less expresses the speakers sarcasm/indifference to the situation.
If you consider it an idiom
But three decades on, “could care less” is flourishing. Ben Zimmer, examining its career last year in a column at the language website Visual Thesaurus, reported that “could care less” had steadily gained ground in edited prose. In American speech, according to research by linguist Mark Liberman, “could care less” is far ahead of the “couldn’t” version. And “could care less” is no recent corruption, Zimmer found; it shows up in print by 1955, only 11 years after the first sighting of “couldn’t care less.”
I suppose your expectations of the phrase depend on your exposure to it in prose & conversation - I have always considered I could care less to be the “correct” version if speaker is intending nuance.
I agree that until our telephone conversation where she became verbally abrasive, she presented herself rather professionally, if pushy I had visions of a used car salesman sometimes (particularly when she told me that my saddle would “never work” but she could bring me a few stubbens to try), but in person she’s never been this jaw dropping. The website is what pushed me into posting something, particularly when I have someone I’ve met a few times messaging me the link “knowing” it was me she was referring too (and the “thank you for your pictures spiel”).
If she had never posted the refund policy that was so blatantly different from my experience, I never would have requested a refund. I certainly wouldn’t have progressed to a review, she wouldn’t have stolen my pictures etc etc etc.
I mentioned my experience to a few friends, ones that were there at the show and could see the saddle first hand. I did not post all around facebook, stalk her, harass her etc like she is claiming. And I certainly didn’t threaten her at any point during our conversation. As far as my “best friend” going after her…while I know the experience she’s talking about (and that’s actually the friend who drew my attention to the posted refund policy) however we aren’t by any means “best” friends. We get along well, I’ve known her about a year but she’s never been to my house, I’ve never been to hers. We mainly talk through FB, I’ve seen her in person/talked on the phone less then a dozen times (and all of those at shows or other “horsey” things).
I’m not sure why she’s blaming “me” for her negative experience, when in fact it was my friend who felt harassed? I guess from now on if she has a negative experience with anyone I happen to be FB friends with it will be my fault?
MVP - I’ve always stated, with every fitter that I talked to, that I wanted the saddle fit to my mare. She’s the one that is ridden the most, shown etc. She’s also the sensitive one. My gelding is not a priority, heck he’s not even being ridden right now and when he is, he’s much more tolerant of iffy fit. When I had my in-person consult with Fitter A (original fitter) we fitted it to my mare, then looked at my gelding and my sisters mare to see what shim pads would be needed to make the saddle work for the few times I did ride them.
With that said, I think I rode my sisters mare MAYBE 3x in the 2 years she was at my place. I just wanted the capability of hopping on, but she was a very difficult ride with a jump I quite honestly couldn’t sit, so not very frequently (plus I ride by myself mostly so try to stick to horses I know). When I started the saddle hunt I did tracings that showed how similar my mare and the gelding were and every fitter that saw it said it wouldn’t be an issue to ride both with the same saddle, fitting to the mare.
The gelding isn’t riding sound, so saddle fit is the least of my worries with him, and my sisters mare is no longer at my farm.
:lol: my farrier actually will come back to “fix” the situation (at no additional charge) - new horse, he always discusses with client what he sees in the foot & how would they prefer he shoe/trim the horse, i.e. same as previous farrier, or is client interested in change … he did this with a friend’s horse recently: mare walked out MUCH less short strided.
In my area, all the local fitters will come back out (generally within a set time period) to re-adjust (at no charge) as needed after the initial paid appointment.
Unfortunately FP is such a prima donna that it requires the initial adjustment, then 3-4 tweaks before he OK’s the saddle fit: NONE of the required tweaks are obvious - fitter plays a bit here & there & suddenly, happy horse 
I ply said fitter with gifts - she refuses the $ tips & claims that she is earning her phd in saddle fitting with him 
If my horse came up lame after being shod by a new farrier, I would for sure ask them to come back and fix the problem. And probably would have my vet there to discuss why the horse was lame.
I would not expect to pay.
Heck, if my horse pulls a shoe shortly after being shod my farrier will come and fix it for free.
If I had my saddle fitted and the horse immediately became backsore, I would ask the fitter to fix it if they were in the area. Unfortunately, the only time that has happened the fitter wasn’t local.
If I mess up on a flocking job, I want to know, and I want to fix it, and I fix it for free. And if it’s a case where the customer has shipped the saddle to me for an adjustment, I pay to have it shipped back to me, fix it for free, AND return it to the customer on my dime. It’s my responsibility; I made the mistake and I don’t expect the customer to pay me for fixing something I screwed up. And if for some reason I can’t do the work to the customer’s satisfaction, they get their money back with a heartfelt apology.
That’s the way Edie Tschorn taught me to do business. It worked for her, and it works for me.
Well I guess I am of a different opinion. If I have a new farrier work on my horses and he lames them I wouldn’t let him touch them with a 10 foot pole again, for free or otherwise.
This is the point I was trying to make: If a professional in the horse-world harms my animal with the way they work, I am not going to have them try to fix it to potentially cause more harm. I am going to find someone else who can do a better job.
[QUOTE=Sleipnir Saddlery;7382112]
Here are Photobucket’s terms, in case you didn’t know:
“By displaying or publishing (“posting”) any Content on or through the Photobucket Services, you hereby grant to Photobucket and other users a non-exclusive, fully paid and royalty-free, worldwide, limited license to use, modify, delete from, add to, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce and translate such Content, including without limitation distributing part or all of the Site in any media formats through any media channels, except Content marked “private” will not be distributed outside the Photobucket Services. Photobucket and/or other Users may copy, print or display publicly available Content outside of the Photobucket Services, including without limitation, via the Site or third party websites or applications (for example, services allowing Users to order prints of Content or t-shirts and similar items containing Content).”
I found the pictures on a public album with a simple search for “saddle fitting” on Photobucket.[/QUOTE]
I think this falls into the category of just because you can does not mean you should.
So what that you are allowed to. It does not make it the morally correct thing to do.
It’s the OP’s saddle, she can use it how she wants and she doesn’t need to justify it to the saddle fitter or anyone else. By the same token, the saddle fitter is well within her rights to decline to work on a saddle or to exclude free re-visits or whatever if she thinks the way a client uses the saddle will cause problems. Nothing justifies the sort of poor customer service/treatment offered by the saddle fitter here.
[QUOTE=Alterwhattodo?;7383094]
A few points.
One, I’ve never called her names, given her the finger, or insulted in person, at shows etc. I’ve NOT blasted her all over social media. I never posted anything on my personal page regarding her, nor on any of the plethora local “horse” related sites.
I’ve made two posts on Facebook, both on this fitters business page. One on her “refund policy” when it was posted prior to it being removed, then following her extremely abrasive, bullying, and unprofessional phone conversation with me, I left a review on her facebook page (which included a link to my photobucket pictures). After she removed her address to eliminate reviews, I did not do anything further. I ONLY posted to COTH after I saw the website post with my stolen pictures, and ONLY on COTH, despite belonging to 4 different forums.
The saddle was flocked twice prior to Ms. Anderson working on it. Once about 3 weeks after it was delivered as my “initial” flocking by the fitter in early June (fresh from the factory). Then in August, the flocking on the gussets had fallen down/became compacted so I mailed it off to Mike Scott (as my original fitter was out of the country) to get flocking added and stitching to the bottom of the gussets to prevent it from happening in the future. Since my saddle was “distance flocked” I contracted with Ms. Anderson at a horse show I was attending to tweak it less then a month after that since I wanted it to be perfect for my clinic (big laugh right?).
I never stated initially that I wanted the flocking removed from the gussets, in fact, at the show it was flocked unevenly and I brought it up then and it was fixed at that time. My mare is NOT narrow, and the saddle fits her perfectly with the addition of a very small gel pad. The bare tree was a perfect fit, previous saddles were all wide/extra wide, we discussed at the time of the initial fitting the logistics of getting the tree widened if it became necessary since my mare was a rising 6 year old and is still maturing.
I did lend it to a rider at the show where it was fitted. It was the daughter of a friend of mine, she was saddle shopping, so at the previous show, we had started talking about the BC saddles, and I told her she could borrow it at the upcoming show to see what her daughter thought. I still allowed her to because the saddle was being “tweaked” and figured a few flat classes with a 80 lb rider couldn’t hurt. I then allowed another friend who was also saddle shopping to borrow it (who went out and purchased a BC saddle) after the saddle was rocking and making my mare sore, and I knew that Amanda was coming out again to work on the saddle prior to my clinic so figured it couldn’t hurt. None of these horses were wider then my mare.
I own one other horse that goes in this saddle with the addition of some shim pads. He’s coming back from a severe SI/hip injury and hasn’t been ridden by me since March 2012. He’s been ridden a few times by a little girl and my son mainly walking, but they’ve used a 16" collegiate saddle that fits him (but there ain’t no way I can cram my fat butt into that saddle). I did discuss riding my sisters mare prior to the clinic since she (my sister) had someone coming out to look at her that weekend, but after Amanda advised against it, skipped, and went and watched the first day of the Greg Best clinic instead.
At the time that the issue with the flocking was brought up, the saddle had not been used on any other horses since the second fitting trip, and just the two rides on different horses inbetween fittings, but NOTHING since the final fitting. I HADN’T used the saddle on a different horse following the clinic, so NO idea where she saw it being used.
Greg brought up my tendency to tip and get forward over fences at my clinic, an issue I’ve struggled with for years. He did not overly hammer my leaning habit (I don’t recall us talking about it at all other then when I brought it up and he stated it was improved since last year). I’ve cliniced with him numerous times since I was a teen, and he’s aware of my spinal issue. In fact, while he’s recommended his “looped stirrup” exercise, my “leaning” has never been poor enough that he’s had me do it in a clinic, just recommended it as a regular exercise at home. As far as back soreness post clinic….I hopped off after my clinic and said “there’s something wrong with this saddle” We did check her back, and she was not back sore. I didn’t discover that the issue was her shoulders until 2 rides later.
I’ve also NEVER made any threats at all. Here’s the chat transcript from the time I discovered the issue with the flocking to my final message. I tried to do screen caps however the writing was too small. but if someone wants to see those, just PM me and I’ll share Promise I didn’t edit anything!!! I tried to remain professional and honestly thought I succeeded. You will also note that she never offered to have another fitter take a look at her own cost eye roll
Now I will say, that when I initially found the issues, I thought that the gussets were over flocked, and thus making it sore. The wonderful fitter who helped me is the one that pointed out it was do to a lack of flocking under the pommel, and why she was most likely getting sore (weight of the saddle being shifted down onto her shoulders).
Now for the show.
I spoke with one of the fitters on this site during the whole issue. She said that she thought it was an issue with a lack of flocking under the pommel, which was shifting the weight onto her shoulders. I did a trial ride the Friday before the show using the recommended set up (front shim pads) and she was back to her old self. I will admit that I took her to the show the next day, however, there must have been residual soreness that was masked by bute Friday (from her Thursday dose), because she was horrible, pissed and bucking (we don’t school, so this wasn’t apparent until I got in the show ring). We placed last in our classes (small classes), and I withdrew from the final class. I never even picked up my ribbons (why bother) let alone posted pictures.
Now I admit showing her was stupid. I thought we had a decent bandaid, but obviously I didn’t. That’s when I opted to treat her with robaxin to really knock out that soreness before trying again.
I did lose my temper during our telephone conversation when she told me that she would give me a refund if I didn’t mention this for 6 months, however, my exact words were that at that show everyone that asked “what was wrong with her” I was sure to show them my saddle and tell them exactly what happened and how my saddle was messed up (never said ruined….its just flocking, which can be fixed).[/QUOTE]
You don’t have to defend yourself anymore…I think we’ve separated the wheat from the chaff on this thread
[QUOTE=mvp;7382337]
I’ll take your word for a statement of Photobucket’s policies, if a badly-written one since objects like photographs don’t have the ability to do jack. But you must admit that taking these from Photobucket is not the same as explaining that the OP gave you explicit permission to use them. You are taking advantage of her there.[/QUOTE]
I dunno if you should take her word for it. I’m doing a PhD in Digital Media Studies, and I’m a member of my field’s Intellectual Property Caucus. This means, among other things, that I actually do sit around reading various social media sites’ terms and conditions in connection with my work.
And Sleipnir left out a super important, bold-faced clause (bolding is from the original) in the Photobucket terms:
By making your content public, you are also giving other Members on Photobucket the right to copy, distribute, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce and create derivative works from it via the Site, third party websites or applications (for example, via services allowing Members to order prints of Content or t-shirts and similar items containing Content, and via social media websites), provided such use is not for a commercial purpose.
Now while I’m at the concession stand buying more popcorn, perhaps an intellectual property lawyer will show up and suss out whether Sleipnir’s usage constitutes “nonprofit educational purposes covered by the fair use defense” or “commercial uses in which the informational content of the web site is directly tied to selling products or services” (and yes, under US copyright law, the second can still apply to non-profit organizations in certain situations.) As for whether Sleipnir Saddlery can be reasonably called a non-profit organization, again, I leave that to the lawyers.
Of c ourse, there’s the law and then there’s ethics and manners. Even if it turns out to be 100% legal to use these photos as Sleipnir has, it’s still tactless to do so.
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