Some of these posts are just picking the OP’s messages apart. She came asking for help, not to be put on trial. Give your feedback in a supportive, constructive way, people, or if you really just cannot manage to be casually friendly to another horse person who asked a question on a bulletin board, so be it, but go make sure you’re doing all the things you’re picking her apart for, for your own horse.
It’s the holiday season. Be nice.
I think things are hard to convey on a message board. The horse wasn’t recently moved, he’s been at the same barn for a few months now. Before that, yes he lived in a huge herd of nearly 30 horses.
He was on a 12 week schedule for his feet. In my experience that is much too long. I’m not sure why his feet were so bad but seeing that all of his feet were so bad, I assumed it was a quick job. I did not call the farrier and tell them to make major changes. I asked trainer to find me the best farrier she knew of and had used. I didn’t tell him to do anything because I’m not a professional. To me, it doesn’t look like he was trying to make feet match. It looks like he is trying to fix a poor job done all the way around. Yes maybe he was too aggressive but what is done is done. That was 4 or 4 weeks ago so now we have no choice but to live forward. He’s not home with me yet, still in training. His next trim might be with my farrier where I can be more hands on with how’s he done.
He’s in VERY light work. Or was. As I stated, he’s not being ridden right now. And when he was it was 3 or 4 times a week often for 20 minutes and the majority was walking. Often my own time with him was light ground work or just a hand walk. The trainer does a lot of light hacking on a trail. I told her my biggest focus was just exposure and confidence for him. And sometimes her rides are working on walk to halt transitions, a few steps of turn on the forehand and standing and then she hops off. It works for him right now.
I’m far from perfect but I do try to listen the horse and professionals around me. I promise you all that I’m trying my best. If it’s his feet and not the saddle, well we will work on that. Although that doesn’t change much in how I will proceed. I think time off except light ground work, a better fitted saddle, massage, a vet exam and ulcer treatment is a fair place to start. I can only do so much at once. It’s only been 4 weeks and I’m committed to getting him back to feeling 100%
A good old fashion vet exam is always a good place to start. If your vet is comfortable with it, have the horse flexed with and without the saddle. I could imagine that if it’s TRULY the saddle you should be able to see it in a lameness. Thermography is always a route you could take to see if there are any hot spots along the back. I don’t think they are crazy expensive but still will be shelling out about $400.
The feet are going to take time and you go at the pace of the horse like the farrier sounds to be doing. If possible, I’d ask if he could add more support to the hind feet. Not like a wedge or anything, but my guy just let her shoes go a little further back then what’s deemed “normal”. It did help support her suspensories and helped alleviate some back issues.
@SharonA happy holidays and thank you!
I know most people mean well and lots of good suggestions here. I do think people can come very pretentious sometimes on here and even as if they are shaming. I am not sure if that’s the intent though. I try to speak to others on the internet the same way I would to a fellow boarder in the barn (face to face.) I don’t think everyone does that though and they let the computer screen give them more comfort in being a little more blunt/cutthroat.
I get it, I’m passionate about horses too! I try to remember that most people on this board are here because they too, love horses and are trying their best!
I HATE the word “holistic” as it has a real “fru-fru” connotation but with horses you have to use it because if you change one thing on the horse you will, of necessity, change a string of related things. We are best to change only one thing at a time as that way we can intelligently assess what effect that change has, or has not, made and then make, or not make, additional changes after that. This takes time; but as Alois Podhajsky said, “I have time.”
First, square away the feet; no foot no horse, don’t we know! At the same time you can start the saddle assessment process. Work under saddle is not required at this point but assessment of stationary fit is a good way to start. If it were summer you could saddle the horse without a pad and just work them enough to get a mild sweat pattern but that’s hard to do in the winter. If you Google “saddle fitting aids” you will find a bunch of stuff, not all of which is of equal value. But watch a few videos and read a few articles to give yourself a “knowledge base” that you can use when you talk to a professional fitter.
After the feet are squared away finish the saddle fitting process. Remember that your solution now will not be final solution. That is 2-3 years away when the horse is fully filled out.
This is going to be a process and it will require some Tincture of Time as well as some greenbacks. But with a four year old you HAVE time. Use it wisely!!! 
G.
What’s puzzling is he was going so well! Progressing in his training (which of course was basic) and at least with me, getting more and more relaxed, moving better and I have a video of us just two and a half weeks ago. He looks so much happier and healthier than the horse I originally saw in October.
The back pain did coincide with his lightest week of work to date. He only was ridden once and basically had the week off because of family being in town and weather (this was before our giant snow storm, oh how we didn’t know just how bad it was going to get.) Not sure what to think of that but I know we will figure it out. It’s just interesting that when the work was decreased and then the soreness starts… Something to talk to the vet about too.
@Guilherme has it nailed.
Feet first. If his feet have not been managed properly, he’ll have been compensating in various ways in many parts of his body. As you manage him and get his feet taken care of, you may (very likely, in my experience) see pain “pop up” in places that previously seemed fine, as his body starts to move and load itself more correctly - areas that were overloaded to protect sore heels, for example, may suddenly show their soreness.
Be patient, make sure you feel confident in assessing the work of your hoof care professional - or engage someone you trust who can help you assess. Ensure his diet is feeding his feet properly (eg: my forage provides everything in good quantity AND ratio, except for copper, zinc, sodium, and selenium. There is literally no detectable level of copper in my hay, and it’s critical for hoof health, so I supplement!).
Make sure the horse has the support he needs foot-wise to be comfortable, stimulate hoof health, and to actually use his feet properly. Whether that’s boots, shoes, more turnout, whatever.
If I were in your position, I’d look at this as an opportunity to do a ton of work on the ground and solidify the relationship and his groundwork skills. Then as his feet improve and you get your saddle fitter involved, you’ll be set up for a much better start under saddle.
I take on quite a few creatures who have had rough starts of various categories: rough handling, ignored physical issues, pushed way too quickly, etc. They remember that for the rest of their days - if you have an opportunity to minimize his association of Work = Pain, grab it!
@kashmere definitely! Honestly to me his feet look way better now but maybe that is the problem. Maybe the farrier was too aggressive. He’s not my regular farrier as the horse is still in training an hour away from where I live. But he’ll be moved closer next month (Which yes, is bad timing perhaps. But I have no choice at the moment so we have to just do our best.) Moving him will suck but the benefit is I can see him daily once he moves and use my farrier who I really like as well.
I definitely slowed his work (no undersaddle work) down at the first sign of an issue. I’m trying to be proactive because as you said, this can become a thing! I’d rather just take care of everything now. He’s had such a good attitude under saddle and I want to keep it that way.
And maybe that’s all just coincidental. Maybe he did something to himself in turnout or his stall, and assuming there was something already brewing due to saddle fit and/or hoof balance and/or whatever else, it was enough to really exacerbate it to the point it made a big enough difference.
@JB yes that good be. He lives with 3 other young thoroughbreds.
One thing he’s doing is trying to self stretch. He’s taking his left leg and stretching it out in front him a lot when he’s being groomed. Definitely acts like he’s trying to work something out in his body.
Overall besides that he seems happy and playful as ever.
I’m not always big on chiropractics when I don’t have a specific known issue but that is super interesting. It sounds like the saddle definitely doesn’t fit but if the ouch did not coincide with the farrier work or a heavy work week, perhaps he went down playing or being silly in the field. I’d be curious to have a good chiropractor do an evaluation without background, if they are willing, to see if they are tracing things back to the same area your trainer identified.
@GraceLikeRain yeah he has an appointment with a Masterson method person and then later in the month a chiropractor that is also a vet. I’m not usually big on Chiropractic either but in the case with this stretching thing, I think it’s a good idea.
One note, the trainer didn’t find him sore. I went out one day and we did ground work. He was very fresh and afterwards the trainer suggested I just hop on and walk to cool out. Then he freaked out with the girth. The saddle fitter came out the next day and immediately said he was sore. She said she saw it just looking at him (but she palpated too.) She looked at the saddles he had been ridden and thought one really was the culprit but of course she’s no vet.
@Lunabear1988 It sounds like you are doing the right things! I have been through several foot-based wringers and have seen the domino effect of soreness from both poorly managed feet AND the process of getting them sorted out again. So as long as you are in a bit of a transition phase with feet, it wouldn’t surprise me to see some limb and/or body soreness.
Forgive if I’ve missed this in earlier posts, but have you taken a look at his diet in terms of analyzing his intake of minerals etc? Your mention of girthiness made me think of a mare of mine who was SO touchy, girthy, and body sore until we sorted out her Magnesium and Salt intake. The Calcium provided by her forage/feed was fine, but she was not getting nearly enough Magnesium and that imbalance was throwing her way out of whack and making her muscles feel awful. She was also sodium deficient, based on diet analysis - and I can’t fully remember (ie: I am not a chemist so don’t fully understand) how sodium affects the things that Ca/Mag do, but it’s a big part of proper body function in many varied ways.
She did have other issues, as well, but sorting that out helped to really clarify what was soreness based on, for example, saddle or out of whack feet (both of which were an issue) and what was soreness because her muscles were not able to properly relax.
Well it’s a much warmer day (and oh my goodness the MUD!!) And happy to say his back seemed fine today. I had to really get in there to get the caked mud off and he was okay with that. So muddy so just handwalked.
I’m still having the massage therapist and chiropractor out and taking it slow. But hopefully I was fretting over something that wasn’t as big of a deal. Fingers crossed. We will see how the next few weeks go!
@kashmere right now he lives out 24/7 and is on hay only. He’s going to be moving in a month though so I’ll definitely be checking into diet more. But right now it’s not possible (no point in testing hay when we only have a few weeks left at this barn )
I’ll definitely talk to the vet about what nutrition would be best. I think the barn we are moving too has had their hay tested before.
The low pressure systems may be getting to his back/hind leg joints. I mostly ride elderly horses, and I expect more ouchiness overall when the weather systems change. If your horse has had any minor strains from playing around, the weather changes can also affect the new physical pains.
On these horses I use one of two pads (I’ve never tried them together.)
I like the BOT/ThinLine Contender II shimmable pad, the BOT fabric reflects heat back, and these infra-red rays are longer, and may go deeper into the muscles (I have no proof.) The ThinLine on the top of this pad and the ThinLine shims help protect the horse’s back from my not so perfect seat and coordination. My riding teacher often comments how the horse I’m riding looks more relaxed and moves more freely than he does without this pad/shim system.
The other pad I will use is my old Corrector pad by Len Brown. He now calls this system the Protector pad, and it has felt shims you can put in. This pad does not have technical fabrics or any shock absorbing material, but many horses I’ve ridden in it have improved, their strides get longer and their backs no longer seem quite as ouchy, and the horses continue to improve as time goes on. This pad seems to protect the back some from less than perfectly fitting saddles. This can be a very useful pad to use on a horse who is rapidly growing muscles.
This pad can free up a horse’s shoulder swing, I need a lot less leg to extend a gait when using this pad. The horse’s back muscles often relax, with one horse I had been using a not perfectly fitting saddle on (this saddle was a little too high at the pommel before the Corrector), he relaxed his back/shoulder muscles and I had to put front shims in to get the saddle up in front.
Neither pad plus shims system is cheap, but they are a whole bunch cheaper than continually trying saddles while your horse is healing and growing bigger muscles.
The weather we have been having plus a cessation of work could for sure make a fairly minor but brewing back soreness issue all of a sudden become a big deal. As you know, my horse has a lot of back issues, and with his recent lameness, it has been a struggle to keep his back happy while not working him much and correcting the problem in the foot (which also makes the back unhappy). He’s been sound now some weeks, but the cold mornings (and cold nights) are rough on him. He’s much better on the warmer days. Even though he got a great checkup from his bodyworkers recently.
It’s not necessarily an oh he’s injured oh he’s cured kind of thing, especially for a growing youngster dealing with new movement and foot changes and navigating all the wet/snow/ice we’ve been getting and … just being a horse and doing who knows what on his own time. It’s understandable to have better days and not so good days. Some are just more sensitive to these things than others. There are things you can do that I mentioned above, in addition to what you are already and intending to do for him, that could help make the bad days less bad as you work on momentum towards a strong and healthy horse with correct feet. 20m of walking may not be enough walking. Maybe two sessions of that could be better. The horse’s back is a complex thing that is affected by a lot of varied factors. Don’t fret so much the things that may or not have been wrong (less than ideal tack, too much too fast with the feet or not), just formulate a new path forward. Looks like you are on the track to doing that.
I have a back on track saddle pad on the way for Christmas and have a few pads with shims for later if needed (while growing and saddle fit.)
I think he’s just a sensitive type in general. I definitely feel like there was probably multiple things going on and it definitely seems like the weather does affect him a bit. But I’m going to take a breath and try not to over worry! Hopefully we can find a good saddle and keep things moving forward as they should.
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