Poor topline/condition in pasture puff

[JB]

I think part of the “argument” over topline is lack of a definition.

There is conformational topline - good conformation makes for a smooth topline, and assuming no injuries or metabolic issues or nutritiona/caloric deficits, a horse with good conformation, not in work, will have a nice enough topline because he’s got decent flesh and muscle over it all, from poll to tail. Keeping a horse fat might make the topline look smoother than the same horse who’s in top level Eventer shape, but both might still be visually a “good topline”

That well-conformed WB pasture puff is not going to have the same muscular topline that the solid Training Level WB has, and that TL WB isn’t going to have the same muscular topline that a GP horse has.

A horse who has a long loin with poor LS gap, is butt high, poor pillar of support, and has a low neck emergence, will never have a topline as nice as the above pasture puff WB, even in work, because the physical characteristics of the horse don’t allow it.

A “poor topline” isn’t because the horse isn’t in work for 8 hours a week. 6 pack abs is the equivalent of that GP level dressage horse

Until we see a picture of the horse in question, it’s all a guess, but a lot of things point to something being wrong, and it’s not because he’s out of work. The fact that he’s having trouble holding his hind legs up is telling - something neurological (EPM, Lyme), some SI injury, even untreated PSSM 1 or 2 could lead to this sort of thing.

[DMK]

…and (speaking from experience) a pasture puff with some type of cervical/spine/SI discomfort is likely to have a poor topline because they move and stand differently all day long. Good movement makes for good toplines.

A horse (like my early retiree) has a terrible topline. He has regular access to hills, gets ration balancer (protein), is out 16+ hours a day (with a grazing muzzle so that probably promotes a little more movement than regular grazing), and when he is in, it’s a huge dry lot with a companion so it’s better than just standing in a stall.

But he hurts (see: Early Retiree) so he stands camped out a fair amount (and when he trots/canters, it’s generally an upside down banana). Within 12 months of full retirement it was so pronounced we even took blood, checked his urine and did an ultrasound for bladder stones. All clean. Ten days of bute and the problem went away (until a week or two after the bute was stopped because… Early Retiree).

This pic was about a year ago after about 18 mos of towel-thrown-in, pure retirement and about a year of hit or mostly miss before that, so effectively 2.5 years with no quality way of going (by that I mean naturally carrying himself correctly)

and this was when he was also a pasture puff, just before being started probably about 30 months old (not the same angle, but I think the difference is pretty clear

My vet recently used him as a test subject for a cervical/spinal x-ray wet lab conducted by Dr. Reid and as part of that I put together a performance/medical history with a selection of pictures on how much his back/topline changed over the years (I have owned him since he was 15 mos old). Even I (who knew it had changed), was shocked at how much when I looked at 11 years of pics. Oh yes, and he was the hit of the show, THE Medical Mystery to solve (he’s well behaved) and has 3 complete set of rads from nose to just forward of mid thoracic ( I think - as far back as your standard xray technology can image). All clean.

If that doesn’t sum up horse ownership, I don’t know what does. Multiple teams of vets working on your horse. THE cervical GOD in charge. FREE. It was a given it yielded not one answer.

[Montanas_Girl]

@DMK

If that doesn’t sum up horse ownership, I don’t know what does. Multiple teams of vets working on your horse. THE cervical GOD in charge. FREE. It was a given it yielded not one answer.

Isn’t that the truth? I euthanized my heart horse for what presented as a clear case of ESPA - dramatically dropped hind fetlocks, severe lameness that didn’t abate with any type of medication, etc. Nothing had ever been evident on radiographs or ultrasounds, so the vet school did a full necropsy. What did they find? “Mild to moderate” osteoarthritis of pretty much every joint in his lower legs. THAT’S IT (aside from PPID and other ancillary old-horse issues).

OP, I too suggest testing for PPID, just to be safe. That’s usually step number one with an older horse that is losing topline. But I’d also want to dig into the lameness issues if he were mine; something is clearly going on his hind end. Roach backs don’t just happen - they’re either conformational (and present from day 1) or a result of posture changes in an attempt to compensate for pain. Good luck! These types of issues can be very frustrating to manage.

[S1969]

@JB

I think part of the “argument” over topline is lack of a definition.

I agree - and also the definition of “roached back.” This horse does not appear to have a roached back in my opinion. It doesn’t have much of a topline but I don’t see “roach” here.

he has a very thin neck, with almost no muscle to it. His ribs and dock/tail have good fat deposits. My vet has rated him as in great weight. His neck, withers, spine are raised and looks like it belongs on a horse with poor body weight, but his weight is fine.

This is the closest picture I could find, but he doesn’t stand under himself like that and he has more flesh over his ribs and belly.
https://thehorse.com/wp-content/uplo…e-1280x640.jpg

Personally my first guess on re-reading this quote again is that the horse probably is underweight, regardless of what the vet says. OR, something like Cushings - where the weight is acceptable but there is significant muscle atrophy.

Horses don’t need “work” to avoid muscle atrophy if they have turnout. They will obviously have more muscle if they are in work, but they shouldn’t waste away without it. This is my TB mare last fall at 23 after at least 6 years of not doing ANYTHING other than walking around and eating…and prior to that having a light ride every other week or so. (So, pretty much she has done nothing most of her life except 2 years in race training and 10 years having babies.)