Popeye K @ KWPN inspection?

[sporthorsefilly]

[QUOTE=fish;1871688]
Just wanted to say before this thread slipped off the page, that I think this is one of the best ones ever to appear on this board. For years, I’ve been watching with frustration as WB registry people and H/J people tried to communicate with one another to no avail. This is the first time that I believe I’ve seen such concerted efforts to get past the insults (unintended or not) and hurt feelings, and, consequently, what seems to be the development of understanding and respect. I want to thank everyone who worked so hard on their posts, with so many wonderful explanations and illustrations, to make this possible.

P.S. I hope others followed the link the the keuring photos and looked at more of Popeye K’s dressage test. I’m I just “hunter-blind,” or aren’t there pictures there showing him in a very nice dressage frame with good engagement behind (or at least plenty of flexion and reach) and equally nice use of the front?[/QUOTE]

I thought he looked fabulous in those photos, and lets face it he isn’t doing GP level dressage! He was going forward “on the bit” and not behind the vertical as some horses appear to be in the lower level dressage classes. He is one gorgeous horse, and remember, Voltaire his sire is by Furioso II, who was a “chunk” of a horse.

Popeye K is just gorgeous, and a truly valuable warmblood stallion to any book! He could have a stall in my barn anytime

[pwynnnorman]

How many can have total freedom of shoulder, step fully beneath themselves so as to be powered from the quarters even when working low, low frame (which gives them the lifting power to manage the bigger jumps without collection) and show a minimum of knee action while making the entire ride look as easy and comfortable as a stroll in the park?

Wow, what an awesome way to put that! Super-kudos and I hope some folks learned from it. Hunters don’t need publicity literature, but, by golly, that’s a statement/question which could go in a brochure, couldn’ t it? So rare is it that the top of the industry is fairly discussed. So few get there, I wonder if some of the problem is that not enough people (and I include Europeans who think all hunters are castoffs) can really understand the challenge. It’d be nice if more statements like evenstar’s were out there more often!

[Home_Again_Farm]

@fish;1871688

Just wanted to say before this thread slipped off the page, that I think this is one of the best ones ever to appear on this board. For years, I’ve been watching with frustration as WB registry people and H/J people tried to communicate with one another to no avail. This is the first time that I believe I’ve seen such concerted efforts to get past the insults (unintended or not) and hurt feelings, and, consequently, what seems to be the development of understanding and respect. I want to thank everyone who worked so hard on their posts, with so many wonderful explanations and illustrations, to make this possible.

I agree.

[graystonefarm]

Dana1011, thanks for the link. Is this Popeye K??? Sorry, but I’m not impressed. :no:
http://www.hoofprintimages.com/mp_client/pictures.asp?action=viewphotos&size=fullsize&pagenum=1&id=951590&eventid=10081

[fish]

[QUOTE=graystonefarm;1872121]
Dana1011, thanks for the link. Is this Popeye K??? Sorry, but I’m not impressed. :no:
http://www.hoofprintimages.com/mp_client/pictures.asp?action=viewphotos&size=fullsize&pagenum=1&id=951590&eventid=10081[/QUOTE]

Did you go on to the next page and see the rest? Certainly this is a horrid picture, but it’s only one of several, and I have yet to meet a horse who never has a bad fence.

[graystonefarm]

Knees are not even
http://www.hoofprintimages.com/mp_client/pictures.asp?pagenum=2&action=viewphotos&size=fullsize&id=951590&eventid=10081

Again not even
http://www.hoofprintimages.com/mp_client/pictures.asp?pagenum=4&action=viewphotos&size=fullsize&id=951590&eventid=10081

And yet again
http://www.hoofprintimages.com/mp_client/pictures.asp?pagenum=5&action=viewphotos&size=fullsize&id=951590&eventid=10081

Then look at this little grey who is consistent with his/her form:
http://www.hoofprintimages.com/mp_client/pictures.asp?pagenum=17&action=viewphotos&size=fullsize&id=951590&eventid=10081

I’m just not impressed. :no:

[fish]

[QUOTE=graystonefarm;1872166]
Knees are not even

Again not even
And yet again

Then look at this little grey who is consistent with his/her form:
I’m just not impressed. [/QUOTE]

Look again-- the grey’s form is not consistent, and never shows the bascule or shoulder freedom Popeye K does.

I still wonder whether you looked at the 2nd page of Popeye’s jumping photos, where Popeye’s put to larger fences. If you did, I cannot help but think it a little mean spirited to show his worst pictures over fences instead of his best, in which he is every bit as even as the grey in his/her best picture (which you presented) and a great deal better in his entire body.

Unfortunately, I don’t have your ability to post links to photos, but I can at least go to the site to see what you’ve done. Neither you nor anyone else is required to be “impressed” by any particular horse, but deliberately selecting as you did, the absolute worst of a dozen pictures of one to draw to public attention suggests a level of venomous intent I find difficult to fathom.

[inca]

http://www.hoofprintimages.com/mp_client/pictures.asp?action=viewphotos&size=fullsize&pagenum=28&id=951617&eventid=10081

http://www.hoofprintimages.com/mp_client/pictures.asp?action=viewphotos&size=fullsize&pagenum=30&id=951619&eventid=10081

http://www.hoofprintimages.com/mp_client/pictures.asp?action=viewphotos&size=fullsize&pagenum=32&id=951621&eventid=10081

Not a hunter person but he seemed to look pretty good over these fences to me.

[mazu]

Yup. None of the other horses even come close to this kind of form. Not even close.

I’m no great fan of hunters, but it seems awfully inconsistent to criticize a horse for not showing great form over low fences, when half the thread is devoted to bashing hunters for having “no scope” and therefore having to “try” too hard over itty-bitty stuff. (Real jumpers save it for the big jumps, you know.)

I can’t get over how freakin’ fat this horse is, though! :eek: You can almost hear him moo in this picture.

[graystonefarm]

No, I did not see a second page. Someone posted the link and I browsed through a few and that was what I saw, at least half of which were not “picture perfect” form. It left me with a very bad impression of him. If those photos don’t reflect his normal and consistent form, then perhaps the owner should approach the photographer and have them removed.

The little grey, was jumping very small fences and required very little bascule.

From what I understand, Popeye’s K stud fee is very high. If I’m breeding hunters and if I’m going to pay big bucks for a stud fee, his form had better be “picture perfect” - at least the majority of the time. JMOHO.

I do not know the owner and do not know the horse and have no ax to grind with anyone. I have been seeing all of these posts and pages about PK and follow the link to view photos and my first thought was WTH is all the hoopla about??

[CBoylen]

I love it. Out of all the pictures, someone chooses the obvious bad distance photo over a trot jump to give them a chance to say that they aren’t impressed :D.
Here are some of Popeye doing his real job:
http://cadmus-stable.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/popeyek.jpg

http://www.fieldstone-farm.com/images/popeyek.jpg

http://www.teresaramsay.com/details.php?gid=136&sgid=&pid=3642

http://randimuster.com/cgi-bin/store/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=2006_Horse_Shows/Winter_Equestrian_Festival_2006/Week_3_Kilkenny_ICH_Internationale/Thursday_Feb__9/Regular_Conformation_Hunters&image=PB06-5552.jpg&img=18&tt=&tfile=tn_PB06-5552.jpg

[graystonefarm]

Cboylen, now those last 2 don’t impress me either. If the horse is jumping bigger fences, shouldn’t he be more tucked and tidy with his lower leg?

[Tiki]

Well, gee, all you hunter guys did the same thing to single pictures of jumpers.

[Zlotych]

Oooh Shiney!

The Popeye K Po-lice are on the job.

[CBoylen]

I think you missed the part of the thread where we discussed lower leg form. For the hunters, we want a box shaped leg over the jump. You do not want a hunter to bring its leg towards its belly below the knee.

[Jumpingfool]

greystone,
despite statements to the contrary not every hunter person is enamored with PopeyeK. Several years ago Tommy Serio owned and showed a fabulous horse called Totally Natural (also Canadian, btw! ) I can almost promise you if PopeyeK had been shown by someone else against Tommy and Totally Natural, Tommy would have been apoplectic if PopeyeK won. I see him quoted on great that horse is and think it is very interesting that his tastes have changed so very much.

[CBoylen]

I quite agree with you in that respect Jumpingfool; Totally Natural is and probably always will be Tommy’s favorite horse, and Tommy ideally prefers a TB type. However, the industry has changed a good bit over the years, and you no longer see very many TBs like him or TB-type. In the industry now, you’ll find very few people who don’t consider Popeye the best horse out there now, or at least in the top few.
Those of us that deal with him on a daily basis are even more convinced of that, because of how easy it is to get him to the ring compared to some of the other top horses. As a show horse, he’s ideal in the trainability and management respects.
He doesn’t have to be everyone’s favorite horse, but his trips and scores and jump cannot be discounted.

[Ladybug_Hill]

Personally, I have seen the video of Popeye K myself. I am a hunter breeder. I think he is a very nice horse, but just not my taste. I personally don’t like his movement (for my mares). He looks to have a hard jump to ride for an older amateur like myself. However, I think he is a quality animal and would be a nice cross for many mares. He obviously has had a lot of success as a hunter and getting mares. I will certainly keep looking at his foals with interest to see what he is siring and on what kind of mares. He certainly is nicer than at least 90% of the stallions out there being promoted as hunter sires.

[fish]

[QUOTE=Tiki;1872385]
Well, gee, all you hunter guys did the same thing to single pictures of jumpers. [/QUOTE]

Hardly! The people posting pictures of jumpers were doing so to analyze why or why the specific JUMP was or was not an example of good form-- NOT to bash the horse! Even in cases where the jump being criticized was presented as advertising by the horse’s owner, most “hunter guys” were usually careful to point out that this was just one jump, and that the horse undoubtedly would look different at other times and in different situations. That’s a far cry from picking out the worst of a dozen snapshots presented by the photographer along with the comment “I’m not impressed.”

I’ll be really sorry if this thread degenerates into another old-fashioned “hunter guys” vs. dressage and show jumping registry afficiandos wreck, not being able to see how that benefits anyone.

I like horse-bashing-- especially when directed at an animal who’d more than adequately proved himself long before this keuring-- even less. No one’s begging anyone to breed to Popeye K. If he’s not suitable for your purposes, fine, don’t breed to him. As others have mentioned, however, if he’s not approved KWPN, the only losers will be those who do want to breed to him but feel they can’t without specific kinds of papers for their babies.

[graystonefarm]

Fish, quite whining. If the horse doesn’t impress me, then he doesn’t. Perhaps my standard a higher than yours? Or, perhaps it’s just my own person opinion. Get over it.