Wow, that’s terrifying. Did your friend contact Triple Crown with those results? In the past, they have been very protective of their brand and haven’t hesitated to pull the contract if it’s not being milled properly. I’d expect the same here.
Very curious what TC would say about those numbers!
They are sending 2 reps from their company to meet me & my horse and want to learn more about the circumstances that led to the development of laminitis… This has been a LONG arduous process for my sweet boy, but thankfully he seems to be getting a teeny tiny bit better after his second subsequent abscess & treatment for osteomyelitis. It could have been a coincidence, but I thought if any one else out there has had a similar occurrence?
Following this thread. I had my 35 year old that we were recently adding triple crown senior to his feed daily develop abcess/laminatis -. its interesting to me to see what the TC team tells you.
Side note: How are you treating your boy? We are icing 2x daily, and put wood shoes on (in back, rotation). Trying to wean him off bute now.
Which Triple Crown product was your horse on? Which Triple Crown product was analyzed? Was this one random sample or was more than one sample analyzed? Was the batch number of the feed analyzed noted and did your feed come from that batch? Were the feeds manufactured in the same plant?
My horses have consistently been on Triple Crown for many years now, and have not had any issues. I do have one who has had two relatively significant bouts of laminitis, before he was on Triple Crown, and is extreme sensitive to changes in NSC. He has had no issues this year.
Quite the allegation. Care to post the report itself? AND the NSC of TC Sr is 11.7%. 40% “higher” than 11.7 percent brings the NSC up to a whopping…16.38%. How many pounds per day were you feeding? Was this horse on pasture as well? Was he muzzled if he had pasture access? What else was he being fed? What is the metabolic issues - he is the right age and breed for those, and it sounds like you don’t know for sure.
You need to look at the overall diet and correctly assess contributory fault prior to pointing a finger at one aspect. Mainly because your main concern is the health of your horse and preventing further laminitic episodes, right?
Did you calculate the NSC yourself or was it calculated for you on your report? I ask because there are different methods of calculating NSC which could have led to the discrepancy.
Triple Crown advertises their NSC values using the ESC + starch.
Yet it’s also an industry standard to calculate NSC by using the WSC + starch.
Water soluble carbohydrates are almost always higher than ethanol soluble carbohydrates, thus yielding a higher number.
It’s quite plausible that using the WSC + starch method would produce a NSC value that is 40% higher than the ESC + starch method that Triple Crown uses, which is why I mention this…
following closely… this might explain a few things…
What an excellent observation.
First, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone weighing in on this. I have certainly spent a great deal of time & energy trying to make sense of all this- especially to PREVENT IT from ever happening again!
To respond to some of the very valid questions:
This began in Jan 2018- several months ago. At the time, I had no reason to think the feed was a contributing component- so at this time I do not have lot numbers from bags, but I am following up with the person that sent me her report to see if she has the numbers. At this time, the report can be found on the ECIR website, along with independent reports on several feed manufacturers & the different feed types- not just this one.
Equianalytical Report:
WSC 9.9
ESC 6.7
Starch 8.7
Feed Co in question (on their website):
WSC 5.3%
ESC 5.3%
Starch 6.4%
Starch +ESC 11.7%
NSC 11.7%
Certainly, I am not an expert at calculating all this, but the independent analysis is dramatically higher in all categories and it’s my understanding Starch packs a bigger punch to the endocrine system.
Also, I do not think Laminitis is caused by any ONE thing (unless it’s a retained placenta, black walnut shavings)- I am speaking of an endocrinopathic type.
According to the ECIR: Diet, Diagnosis, Exercise, and Trim are all important factors.
While my horse at the time apparently DID have an underlying insulin resistance/ slight PPID, he was exercised frequently until we hit really bad weather in January in the SE. According to what I have read on ECIR, exercise is a huge insulin buster.
As I discovered the variance when the report was forwarded to me, coupled with the timing of the mill change, (and Purina is not exactly known for quality control), add in the Founder’s letter admitting he has been made aware of “inconsistencies”… and it’s been the only logical conclusion I can draw.
At the end of the day, I am just searching for answers & clarity. If any other horse owners had similar experiences during the timing of all this, it would add validity to my hypothesis that an increase in the feed’s Starch & Sugar was a contributing factor in his case.
Lastly, I am happy to say, PJ is doing pretty well under the circumstances. He is recovering from his second abscess& subsequent osteomyelitis, and is now wearing a grazing muzzle, & eats a feed & forage with a GUARANTEED analysis. NOT taking any chances!!!
Also, I am going to go back & edit my post, removing the Company name- for obvious reasons, & Thank You Texarkana for the clarification on the NSC calculation:-)
How do you know this was the same batch of feed from the same mill if you have no lot or batch numbers? Was the feed purchased from the same dealer?
I seriously doubt there is enough difference those numbers to have been the sole reason in your horse’s health issues. Going from 11.7% NSC to 15.4% NSC is not likely to cause such severe issues unless your horse was hanging off the metabolic cliff to begin with. It is certainly not like going to a sweet feed with an NSC of over 35%.
Do you test your hay? Was your hay tested at the time this happened? How many pounds of feed per day was/is your horse being fed? How many pounds per day of feed was/is your horse fed?
If Triple Crown is sending someone out to talk to you and investigate your claims, what is your purpose of posting here without knowing what the end result is?
For posterity as I have already gotten a private message for the OP about this. I find it very interesting that Triple Crown jumped right on this person’s Facebook post to provide them information immediately, yet she chose to come to a public forum to trash them.
Cutter99- I am new to this forum, and all I’m doing is searching for information. Additionally, prior to your comment that I am “trashing” them, I went back & removed the feed Company’s name. As a concerned horse owner- which we all are-when a feed company changes mills, and the contents of the feed bag are different that what they advertise, yes I suppose I have a problem with that. Whether or not my hose was on a “metabolic cliff” I suppose only an endocrinologist can answer that and I don’t suppose you are one, are you? For that matter, I am happy to provide a public update once the Company’s reps come to my farm. I am grateful they seem genuinely concerned. IF other horses have been effected, I am sure the feed company in question would want to know as well so that they can correct any potential issues and protect any horses from having the same experience my horse did.
But you still can’t answer the questions I’ve asked, correct?
For future advice, if I had a horse show any symptoms of laminitis (or indeed colic) I would pull them off every food stuff except grass hay immediately. I would cut out alfalfa, grain, hard feed, supplements and go to hay, water and salt right away.
If I had a metabolic horse I would be getting every batch of hay tested. Our local grass can be up to 25% NSC especially when it is mature, coarse, low protein, and people think it’s “safe pony hay.” It isn’t. Ponies have foundered on it.
That said, unless you were feeding a lot of the feed, I don’t think a variation of 4 percentage points is going to make that much of a difference. I also suspect that many feeds might vary a bit like this, because the nutrient profile of the raw ingredients could vary.
If you really need to micromanage intake to that degree, it might make sense to mix your own mash from basic bulk ingredients with a vitamin mineral supplement. But even so, what would you feed to keep the mash below 11% NSC? Beet pulp is 18%, alfalfa cubes about 12% I think. Maybe soy hull pellets.
I understand flying into a panic and blaming the feed company because food purity is a hot button topic these days for pets and people alike. But honestly, I do think you should have pulled horse off everything except hay and water at the first symptoms, and also tested your hay.
If you don’t have a number on your hay, the problem could continue.
Thank you for your productive feedback.
You bring up some great points.
I am actually now feeding him a diet that is guaranteed to be LOW NSC, Starch, & Sugar- not simply an advertisement.
I’d also add that unless you have another analysis from Equi-Analytical, and preferably a couple from various batches, before the change in milling contracts, you can’t know that the NSC didn’t vary prior to the change from Cargill to Purina mills.
Why would a change in mills several months before this situation be the “only logical conclusion”, when you have a horse who you know has “an underlying insulin resistance/ slight PPID,”, and wasn’t exercised (much)in the month this happened, and when cold weather-induced laminitis is a real thing for some horses?
IKR. Nor is OP providing any information on the exact diet of the horse in question. How many pounds of feed, hay(type?), grass, supplements, etc. Triple Crown sent that letter out to every customer they have in their database. I actually got two, and never had any problems or complaints. And I do have one that foundered last year, and I don’t blame the feed company, I blame myself. 100%.
Random side note, I did have three horses go off the TC Senior this spring. Two had been eating it for YEARS. I was firmly on Team “I Don’t Care Who Mills It,” but the horses say it’s not the same as before.
My flamingly metabolic Best Pony Ever foundered for the last time early this spring, shortly before the others quit eating, but he was a time bomb. (ACTH way out of range and not responding to Prascend.) At age 33 I can’t blame anything but his body quitting on me. But I find it all interesting. He had also been eating the exact same diet (with lots of TC Senior) for years.
Really appreciate everyone’s feedback.
Originally this was posted asking if anyone else had experienced anything similar with their horse. Along the way, there has been some great debate regarding the causes of laminitis (ie Winter Laminitis) as well as those asking valid questions about the particulars of my horse’s circumstances. That said, I appreciate all the questions that have come from a place of genuine concern, and many of you have given me some great things to consider to reduce the chances of reoccurrence ( ie Hay Testing!).
However, the point I’m apparently failing to make here is that my horse developed this condition in the midst of a manufacturing change. Historically, the new manufacturer is not known for quality control & there have been enough complaints from customers to warrant the founder issuing a letter admitting there have been “inconsistencies”. I personally find that highly coincidental.
Add in the Equianalytical report that was sent to me from a 3rd party reporting the dramatic difference in Starch, ESC & WSC, in a feed that is specifically marketed & advertised for horses with metabolic issues, and it raises concern.
Can we trust what the feed manufacturer’s are telling us if the contents of the bag differ from what is published?
In hindsight, I wish I had saved feed samples, lot numbers, etc from back in December & January. Since I didn’t save those, thankfully, I am in contact with the person from my area that sent me her report, and I am hoping she did!
Regardless of the circumstances surrounding my horse’s laminitis, at this time, I do not trust what’s in this company’s feed bags and like the hundreds of concerned customer’s on their Facebook page, the simple solution was to just switch feed.
However, as a concerned horse owner, I felt compelled to raise my concerns, and see if any other horses may have also developed laminitis during this time period.
A huge thank you for the compassion and kindness that many of you have expressed privately, as well as those that have shared their own experiences associated with the above circumstances.
We shall see what transpires
Again, posterity. LOL.
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