Portable sawmill and lumber from your farm?

[Plainandtall]

Has anyone done this? How did it work out? Was there any cost saving to be had by the time it was all said and done?

I need to finish the interior of my barn- build the stalls and finish the walls and maybe the ceilings- All along I had been thinking the walls would just be finished with T11 plywood- but sadly my woods have been recently hit by the emerald ash borer and I can see many trees out in the woods that are marked up with the signs of woodpeckers working the bark of doomed trees- which if not dead already, will be very soon.

The farm was logged some time before we bought it 20 years ago and doesn’t have many gigantic trees. I wouldn’t ordinarily consider cutting any of the remaining big ones down- but this really comes as a sad hard hit.

I’ve done a little bit of research and apparently ash is an excellent stall wood for it’s concussion resistance (they use it for hammer handles and baseball bats after all!) and it’s apparently attractive too and takes stain well (if I wanted to do that) One downside I read mentioned a unpleasant odor from the wood and also a lung irritant - I think for people working with it in the milling stages, I didn’t gather that the wood is at all toxic once installed. The other downside is rot resistance is low, I guess for bottom boards- they should be treated.

So I’m considering looking into getting a crew to selectively cut those doomed trees and custom sawing it for finishing the barn. I think it’s a way to make a positive out of a negative, that the trees would be honored in my most loved place to be- worked into something beautiful rather than just left to rot standing testament to a devastating blight. Also- it’s the only practical thing that could be done with them since the EAB infected logs should not be transported anywhere- the only future for them is here at home.

My farrier is also a logger and we are in an amish area where I think there are several crews with mobile sawmills. I’m getting ready to go out and ask questions about the possibility- but I wanted to ask here for any experience with this process and if you think it’s a good idea.

[Guilherme]

You really have to use your sharp pencil and yellow pad in evaluating costs for this type of operation.

Last time I checked on this (a couple of years ago) the operator wanted a daily fee for himself and the unit; I had to supply him a helper at my cost; and I had to deliver the logs to the unit, again at my cost. I had to stack the output at my cost. I had to fund the cleanup. When I calculated the costs to me versus the daily output it was almost 25% higher than just traveling to an existing saw mill and buying what they had. Most sawmills were ready to custom cut for me at their regular price if I gave them some time.

Sawmill owners are at least first cousins to farriers when it comes to “independent thinking.” Negotiations can be had but this is not like buying stuff at a regular lumber yard. If they don’t like you they won’t deal with you. Still, money talks and some give and take is quite normal.

The portable owners are about as “independent” and often more so. Then there’s the issue of competence. You can go to an existing mill and observe what’s being done. With the independent you can’t do that unless you know where they are cutting now and go and observe them. Then there’s the issue of liability. If you provide the helper and he gets hurt it’s your nickle on the line.

If you know the operator, he’s running as a real business (with an appropriate license, takes checks or credit cards, insurance, etc.), and provides the cutting labor then you’re probably OK. You providing the labor to deliver the logs to mill is still your responsibility but that would be no different that if you contracted to have your logs delivered to a fixed mill for processing. And you still have to stack the production.

I’ve yet to find this approach is economical. It’s just an area where you have to be careful as the process your contracting for has the potential to cause real harm. As lots of questions and get multiple references from folks you trust.

G.

[js]

We had a local guy who had a small sawmill set up on his farm. He would cut down and haul out the logs, had a team of draft horses and a do it yourself rig. He was competent enough and cheap but his operation was pretty homemade and ancient so not the most professional. The downside was boards weren’t always quite the same width or thickness and some had a pretty rough cut texture (saw marks). We never bought lumber from him but got some nice shavings. He did make some beautiful cabinets for his house.

You might look around for someone wanting a barn taken down or look for someone selling stall components, sometimes you can get it that way much cheaper.

[Plainandtall]

There are several small local mills, and at least one guy who even offers edge finishing so that stall wall boards can fit tightly together like flooring. I was previously thinking that I would be buying custom oak boards from one of those local mills.

Thanks for your very important insights Guilherme- that was just the sort of info I was looking for.

The man who build my barn 2 years ago happens to be the father in law of my farrier- I was hoping that maybe the whole job could be done and handled within the family. I have trouble imagining how those giant logs are manipulated and moved around in the process of becoming milled lumber- but there are other people who can approach it just like another day at the office… so what seems to me like an insurmountable task- to them is just a step by step labor they understand.

[Jim_in_PA]

I have had material milled on-property several times by a local sawyer with a (larger) portable mill. My purpose was different than yours in that the resulting lumber was for my woodworking avocation. I see nothing wrong with your plan, for the most part, in that it utilizes a precious resource that will likely be lost anyway to serve your needs in the barn. The remaining wane and scrap will also make excellent firewood. Given the infestation, there is also likely a jurisdictional prohibition to move that wood around anyway. (no crossing county lines here with ash and walnut right now)

What was said about the “independent contractor” aspect of sawyers is absolutely correct. Be sure you get quotes from more than one if you can. They generally charge by the hour plus travel plus for any blade damaged by embedded metal in the logs. The guy I use charged $50 an hour the last time I used him, but I hear his rate is at about $75 an hour now. If a laborer was needed (I took care of that piece), there was an extra hourly charge to cover that service. And you do need someone with a decent machine if you are doing more than a couple logs…hydraulics make the job go easier.

Oh, and Guilherme’s mention of log handling is important. Because of time/money, you need those logs to be stacked at the place you intend to mill them before the operator arrives. Just because the mill is “portable” doesn’t mean it can be moved around easily while milling is in progress. To the contrary…it’s becomes a stationary machine that’s well anchored to the ground when in use.

[goodhors]

All good stuff mentioned about having to handle the logs, remove the cut wood, needing workers to aid the cutter person.

We had a guy come in once, a number of years ago. He had a flat rate for setup, charged by the board feet cut. Husband was the “hired help” to move the boards to storage. I would recommend having more than one person, husband could NOT keep up with the cutting, and only had a short distance to move those boards for storage!

We had large 3ft or more, Oak, cut beside the barnyard, trunk was laid in the barnyard to work on. I wasn’t home, husband said the sawmill guy kind of just grabbed the several log pieces and sliced them into parts, that he then sawed into boards. Thick, long boards. We had the small barn FULL of boards stored to dry flat and even with shims between the layers. I was quite amazed at the quantity of wood produced from that ONE tree.

There was a quantity of bark and slabs produced in the sawing, LOTS of beautiful sawdust the texture of cake flour. I had never seen such fine sawdust. We bedded stalls with the sawdust, used the slabs for some fun fires in the evening. We did have to pay him for one broken bandsaw blade, which hit metal inside the tree and broke. Wasn’t very expensive.

Husband thought the whole process was interesting to watch and participate in, I was working, got out of board hauling! He thought the charges very reasonable for the service and quantity of wood we got done. I can’t remember the quantity, but it seems it was more than 1000 ft., which was quite amazing to me.
We used the wood for doing our tie stalls, double board walls, hardly dented the pile. We donated a lot to the local Driving Club, built a LONG, wooden floored bridge for one of the Hazards of our CDE. We also got a 60ft Round pen with 4 rail walls done using those boards. Other various fence rails and jobs done with those boards. Boards were smoothed after being cut with the bandsaw blade, but certainly not smooth like what comes from the lumberyard. Still, they don’t leave splinters in you, discourage horses chewing on them.

The only quirky stuff we got, was he didn’t work more than 20 miles from home. We JUST made it being inside his limit!! So don’t recommend him to folks out further!! We would gladly have recommended him for his quality work, excellent finished product, but I guess he had enough work and didn’t need more.

I do think your idea to remove and use the Ash is great. You DO NOT want those things falling down on you. We are now about 7-8? years into the killing of the Ashes, seeing the damages done in woodland settings, yards, street trees. The darn trees loose the ROOTS!! They tip right over on stuff!! Getting them OUT of your woods, fence rows, is a SAFETY issue now. If you can get them out AND use the wood for construction, more power too you. Get them soon, so wood is still usable, not dry, split or starting to crumble.

Cleaning for our CDE last year, husband and his “minions” had MANY Ash trees to get off the trails for allowing passage of horses and carriages. He led his group, including strong young man, girl (DD) driving with MY Kubota. Amazingly, at least half or more of the Ash trees could be PUSHED OVER by hand! You could tell they were dead, gave a push to prevent them coming towards the trail, and over they went. This was even stuff 6-9 inches thick, but had no roots under it. Sure saves a lot of saw work, pushing them over, then piling them in brush piles out of the way with the tractor. The thicker trees could be pulled down, using LONG tow straps (40ft away pull) and tractor, then cut to be collected as firewood size or fence post lengths, to clear the trail areas. Again, no roots. No roots does make for less strenuous work, but means you keep your eyes open for falling stuff ALL THE TIME. They had lots of tipped dead trees snagged above, widow makers to look up and find before doing ANYTHING, making a safe plan to drop things. Did mean there were almost no stumps to clean up to prevent horses tripping or catching wheels on.

Call and get some prices, you won’t know costs until you have those. Maybe do things in steps. Cut or remove trees from the woods. Clean the trunks of branches and haul to one place for sawing. Then get the sawmill in for making boards with enough people on hand to move and store the boards, remove the trash parts as needed to keep the working area cleaned and supplied with trees. Husband was amazed at how fast our Sawmill Operator went, couldn’t keep up with him. Was pretty whipped by the end of that day!! Provide face masks if Ash sawdust is irritating to lungs, and not a bad idea for cutting any wood. Get high rated ear plugs or ear muff protection for hearing safety. I found the ear plugs to be rated higher than the ear muffs we used at work, and certainly ear plugs are cheaper. Safety glasses might also be a good idea for everyone, and can be inexpensive if purchased at Suppliers like our local Industrial Supply that sells quality tools for use in businesses and true workplace situations. $2 the pair, plain or sunglasses lenses.

I will be interested in your final resolution to the Ash Tree situation! Hope you can use them in the barn!!

Ash is a wonderful wood. Lovely grained, tight to prevent splitting easily, lighter than Oak, hard to take abuse from large animals. My Mom had an Ash table for a number of years, old country type which expanded to fit huge numbers of folks for dinner. I don’t know how much damage the bugs do to the lumber areas. On my trees, it seems to mostly be just under the bark, letting in other things to kill the tree. We have lost many lovely, large Ash trees in town to the Borer.

[Calamber]

I did this with giant Doug Firs we had to take down here (same reason, diseased), we had them trucked to a local mill because a portable would not have worked in our case. I paid back the work on the property and the milling by selling a good bit of it. (we got 7,000 bd ft). The rest we are using on work being done here. It did take a good while because the wood has to be stored in dry conditions (we “sticked” ours for proper drying), for about a year.

[Foxglove]

I did that for my run-in shed. Worked out for me but not for the guy who built it. I told him how much money I had to build the 40 X 15 double run in shed. He and I agreed on price and specs --double sided, metal roof, steel frame (basically a Mobil home frame). He said he could do it at a certain price if he could use my trees. Since I have a huge wood lot, I said yes.

I have my shed --and it’s beautiful -held up great --but the shed builder came to my husband, hat in hand, and explained that he was OUT OF POCKET 1K because he’d underestimated the cost of milling my trees into boards. He thought he’d save money --instead it cost him MORE than if he’d bought boards (and I know he was right because I’d looked into that myself before I hired him, but seeing as he was Amish, I figured he knew somebody or was related to somebody and was getting a cheaper price than I did).

Anyway, my husband went over all the numbers with him, then helped him settle the overages --fact is, he wasn’t dishonest, he just underestimated his costs. My husband (honest as the day is long), paid the fellow after checking all the receipts and doing a fairly good Jimmy Steward impression, hemming and hawing, and aww shucks-ing. I think that was good of my husband --I’m not sure I would have paid ALL the overage --but sometimes in a small community like ours, you do things just because it’s the right thing to do.

Anyway --it didn’t save us any money using our trees --actually cost more.

Foxglove

[caper]

I can get rough cut lumber from the local sawmill for less $$$ and less work. If it is for stalls I would pay more to have it run through the plainer to make it smoother. We get rough cut white oak for our fencing.

[LLee]

[QUOTE=caper;7974007]
I can get rough cut lumber from the local sawmill for less $$$ and less work. If it is for stalls I would pay more to have it run through the plainer to make it smoother. We get rough cut white oak for our fencing.[/QUOTE]

My neighbor has a sawyer come to cut logs for his log cabins. He builds about 1 per year. Once the logs are rough-cut to his specs, the remaining time (sawyer charges flat rate of $1500 per day & bring your own stackers) is spent cutting “luxury” stuff like fancy woods for table tops, cabinets, etc. I got some choice cherry boards cut for a few hundred dollars (I had to pay my neighbor something for using his time), which is nowhere near what the cherry wood would have cost me if I went to town and bought from the local lumber yards. And, the cherry was MY cherry, on MY land, to make MY finish doors, game box, sewing cabinet, etc. The sawyer was very experienced, cut each board according to our specs, we just brought the logs to him in the field with our tractor forks. I also had to spend about $800 to get the cherry tree down after a large part of it split off and it was too dangerous for anybody but a real expert to finish off. But, the tree had to come down. So I didn’t count that expense when calculating how much I saved to get the lumber sawn.

The other thing about sawing your own boards is shrinkage. You have to let the boards dry (treat the ends to keep from splitting) or your project will have gaps between boards when the wood continues to dry out and shrink. My cherry boards are still drying, it’s been 6 months and I anticipate at least another 6 months for the thinnest boards. DH checks them every so often with his spiffy new moisture meter.

Good luck on your project. It’s always neat to use lumber from your own land and see it go to something more useful than just firewood. :yes:

[Calamber]

We did not treat the Doug Firs and not much shrinkage, we did get some cracked ends but very very few. This wood, planed, is stunning and many of the people who purchased it sent me pictures of the finished product. Tight, straight grain, in some cases (one couple made a mantle) they found a wavy grain which just suited them to a tee. Yes, it is very satisfying seeing good wood put to a good use. There is one other option. If there is enough wood, you might find someone who will mill it for a split of the wood. That is what we are having done with a giant cedar tree.

[susanne]

Fir is preferred for cordwood building because it does not shrink the way hardwoods do.

In weighing out the cost of doing this, you need to consider the value YOU place on making use of your existing resources putting to use something that would otherwise be a sad loss. Some may consider it not to be worthwhile, while others (like me) would place great value beyond any actual savings.