Position Help Dressage Gurus!!

[Smthn_Like_Olivia]

I’m an older rider, but passionate about learning dressage. I started late, and then rode in a bad saddle for a year that pitched me forward, in addition to sitting at a desk all day for work. I film a lot of rides to see what I am doing wrong, but for the life of me, I can’t seem to keep my hips forward in the saddle, especially when posting. No matter what, I push my hips back, and bring my shoulders forward. I can fix it in the walk, it’s not terrible in the canter, but when I post, it’s like my body automatically assumes this terrible position. I take lessons and my trainer will constantly say, “Sit back!” but I can’t actively correct it unless I’m thinking about it or someone says something.

Was hoping some of you may have some tips or tricks to help me work through this as I’ve been struggling with it since I sold my old saddle late last year. It’s gotten gradually better, but nothing I’m happy with when I go back and watch my videos. I need something else besides “Sit back” to help me correct this. For instance, I use to struggle with keeping my legs long and was constantly drawing them up in the saddle. Then a friend said, “Think of it as dropping all your weight down into your heels.” And that did it. Within a couple weeks of using this reminder, I no longer have a problem with my lower leg. So I’m hoping that with all the knowledgeable folks here in this forum, I can get some tips to help me correct this problem with my hips and leaning over them.

[Scribbler]

I found that dropping my thigh rather than my heel helps secure my seat. I find that actively trying to lean back will get me merely upright

I am on the cusp of starting to sit rather than post at working trot, looking ahead to when I *need" to sit a big trot on tests.

I think there is a reason dressage uses a sitting trot as things get more complex (second level and above). Some aspects of posting do mess with dressage seat. You can’t really post bolt upright, the motion is inherently a bit forward. You can make the post less hunter 2 point and more upright, and if you can’t sit the various trots yet, you are much better off posting than being thrown around. But ultimately the solution to a really good dressage seat will be sitting the trots. I say trots in plural because collected trot is always easy to sit, while extended will be a challenge, and working trot will depend a lot on your particular horse.

That said, no one can slouch all day and pull erect equestrian posture out of the bag for a 55 minute ride every evening. So you have to figure out how to fix your posture all day, and not slouch or tip forward either walking or sitting. Doing various wall stretches and things throughout the day helps too.

It’s always useful to see a personal trainer or sports physiotherapists to get set up with stretches and tips and insight into your own particular physical issues. Lateral imbalance like uneven hips or pelvis (or saddle) can cause front to back instability as well.

[Puzzled]

Does your saddle fit you properly? Sometimes saddles can interfere and cause you to sit a certain way. Or the thigh blocks are not correct for your leg length, etc. I had a jump saddle that instantly tipped me forward. Muscle memory takes a long time to retrain. So, until it becomes natural, it will be beneficial to have someone remind you. Some things that have helped me: think about lifting the front of my pelvis and to draw my belly button to my back, pretend I have a parachute behind me, keep the elbows soft and following with the shoulders back. I also find having check in points in my ride to check my position helps. Like at A, check lower leg, at M shoulders back, at K relax the elbows. You got this. It just takes time to get your mind and body to work together.

[Smthn_Like_Olivia]

@Puzzled I hope the saddle fits me! I had an independent fitter come out last year that measured both me and horse and made the recommendation for the model that I ordered custom. I think it’s more my previous saddle that trained my body to sit this way. When I go back and look at old videos prior to that saddle, I didn’t seem to have an issue with leaning over my hips.

@Scribbler - Dropping my thigh! That could really help! Thanks! I will try it this evening!

[Rerider54]

@Smthn_Like_Olivia

I’m an older rider…
sitting at a desk all day for work. …
correct this problem with my hips and leaning over them.

Is there anyway for you to spend part of the day at your desk sitting on a fitness ball? That might help to use different muscles then those for sitting in a chair. Also consider that when you are in a chair, or car, the angle of your torso and thigh is 90 degrees. Those muscles will pull your torso forward over your hips when you are in the saddle. Forty hours a week versus how many in the saddle? I added a quad stretch to try and loosen that angle while on the ground. As an ‘older’ rider also I suggest holding on the something secure, stand on one foot and grasp the opposite ankle. Then open the hip angle slowly and without causing pain let yourself relax without too much arch in your lower back. I also do this while laying on the floor for my stretches before bed. Much easier for us ‘older’ folks so we don’t tighten other muscles trying to balance.

One of my friends has told me to ‘sit on my back pockets’… another to ‘lift my rib cage’… lots of good visuals, sometimes they work, always better when I am relaxed.

[Smthn_Like_Olivia]

@Rerider54

Is there anyway for you to spend part of the day at your desk sitting on a fitness ball? That might help to use different muscles then those for sitting in a chair. Also consider that when you are in a chair, or car, the angle of your torso and thigh is 90 degrees. Those muscles will pull your torso forward over your hips when you are in the saddle. Forty hours a week versus how many in the saddle? I added a quad stretch to try and loosen that angle while on the ground. As an ‘older’ rider also I suggest holding on the something secure, stand on one foot and grasp the opposite ankle. Then open the hip angle slowly and without causing pain let yourself relax without too much arch in your lower back. I also do this while laying on the floor for my stretches before bed. Much easier for us ‘older’ folks so we don’t tighten other muscles trying to balance.

One of my friends has told me to ‘sit on my back pockets’… another to ‘lift my rib cage’… lots of good visuals, sometimes they work, always better when I am relaxed.

This is great! Thank you. Will look into getting a fitness ball for my office!

[Hej]

During lunge lessons long ago I was told to

“keep your shoulders away from his ears.”

It sounds odd but it worked for me. (Insert bewildered head scratching emoji here.)

[Samantha37]

I like this one I heard my trainer use:
“create more space between your hands and chest”

Helps both put the hands down and sit up taller

[Dunkhead]

How much off-horse fitness training do you do? As a 50+ aged rider myself, I have found upper body strength training and lower body stretching to be essential in my ability to correctly sit my dressage horse. As you likely already know, the sitting so much during the day is highly counter-productive to your dressage seat. Best of luck on this glorious adventure:).

[Tyrus_Mom]

Someone suggested an exercise in another thread of sitting several beats of the trot, rising for several beats of the trot, and so on. I have been doing that one and I think it helps me. I have a problem with sitting straight all the time, standing straight, I’m a terrible sloucher. I got a posture brace for my shoulders when riding and that has helped. It’s a very uncomfortable reminder of how to sit straight, but it’s making me better. I did buy one of those little gizmos you are supposed to stick to your back and it buzzes you when you slouch, but the DH has yet to synch it to my phone so I haven’t begun to use it yet. Still, I know yours is not a slouching problem, but those gizmos exist to help keep the back straight and give better posture.

I remember hearing about a block. I can’t remember the name of it, but it was a small block that you hold in your hands along with the reins and by holding the block you are forced to sit up straight. I have never gotten it. I heard about it somewhere, probably here, but nothing but good things to say about it, just that’s it’s a cumbersome thing to ride with, but it works.

[Training_Cupid]

I have the same problem (though for me canter is worse than the trot) so this is kind of “do as I say not as I do” because I can’t really to it myself! But I usually think about trying to touch my horse’s tail with the back of my head - obviously I can not actually do that but if I aim for it then… I’m maybe only just slightly leaning forward instead of totally. Or I pretend I’m a saddleseat rider and try to exaggerate it so much that anyone seeing me would wonder what I’m doing. (In reality I still look like a hunter rider sitting in a dressage saddle, leaning forward slightly :o) Other different visuals you could try thinking of:

• Stretching/opening your hip flexors
• Make your front (upper body) longer then the back

Part of my problem is my legs swing back a bit, then my upper body comes forward to counter balance so make sure there isn’t some of that going on.

@Tyrus’ Mom yes the Equicube! I have one and I really like riding with it, it does make it easier / feel a bit more natural to ride more correctly.

I’m new to dressage after 25 years of riding mainly hunters, and it still feels impossible to change that muscle memory!

[SolarFlare]

@Training Cupid

I’m new to dressage after 25 years of riding mainly hunters, and it still feels impossible to change that muscle memory!

Sigh…me too. 30 years of hunters does not then translate well into dressage (I switched to eventing).

For me, it’s about the pelvis. “Sit back” also does nothing. @Puzzled’s " think about lifting the front of my pelvis and to draw my belly button to my back" works beautifully…when I remember lol!! It’s definitely something that is helped by eyes on the ground, then instilling that little voice in your head to remind you constantly.

Another phrase that may work is “imagine somebody pulling your ponytail towards your belt”. That helped me engage my abs and SIT during downward transitions better.

One thing I also do that you might (related to your leg) is tighten my hamstring. If you flex that, you’ll get tight behind the knee, which will affect your leg and seat. It’s also a matter of just consciously reminding yourself to relax that muscle, which will allow your leg to drape and your seat to soften. I tend to tighten it both at trot and canter.

[Smthn_Like_Olivia]

Thank you all! These tips are really helpful! You would think I’d done Hunters for years before Dressage. If you moved me to a hunter horse, I think my position would be perfect! Lol. Didn’t get to ride tonight. As soon as we started tacking up, the sky opened up and the rain came, but I am definitely taking notes from this thread!

[lorilu]

Two thoughts: First, Just because the saddle “fits” you does not mean it is the right saddle for you. The angle of your pelvic floor, the angle your femur makes in your hip socket, the distance between your seat bones and width of your crotch area, the fleshiness of your inner thighs, the length of your thigh and lower leg - all (and more) affect saddle fit beyond the size of the seat. I know this from personal experience - a saddle fitter assured me the saddle fit both of us - but I could not keep my leg under me. We discussed it (I was sure it was me) and she suggested another saddle. It took me 30 seconds to feel the difference.

Secondly, a good visual for me is “Hips forward”, and the feeling of kneeling when I post.

[Smthn_Like_Olivia]

@lorilu

Two thoughts: First, Just because the saddle “fits” you does not mean it is the right saddle for you. The angle of your pelvic floor, the angle your femur makes in your hip socket, the distance between your seat bones and width of your crotch area, the fleshiness of your inner thighs, the length of your thigh and lower leg - all (and more) affect saddle fit beyond the size of the seat. I know this from personal experience - a saddle fitter assured me the saddle fit both of us - but I could not keep my leg under me. We discussed it (I was sure it was me) and she suggested another saddle. It took me 30 seconds to feel the difference.

Secondly, a good visual for me is “Hips forward”, and the feeling of kneeling when I post.

She actually took my measurements for it and had me sit and ride in several different brands and models. I honestly believe this is more me than the saddle.

“the feeling of kneeling when I post” <<THIS! This is what I needed!

[Melissa.Van_Doren]

It’s terrifying to think a custom saddle may not be working for you, but I’ll add my voice to the chorus. Borrow a few different saddles to see if you find a positive difference.

And try this:
Concentrate on lifting your ribcage up and away from your hip bones. Practice it standing on your own two feet. When you do it, you’ll feel your chest open, your shoulders drop back and down and your upper arm close at your sides.
Then…
Pull your chin back over your collar bone. The head is heavy and a leading chin can pull your whole upper body forward.
And finally…
When you rise at the trot, think of bringing the bottom of your zipper up and forward and make sure it lands towards your pommel when you sit.

[Arlomine]

I hate to say this, but “sit back” is a pathetic piece of advise, and if that’s the best your trainer can come up with, its time to find someone with a better tool box.
There are many trainers who are more articulate, and who are truly interested in the biomechanics puzzle of dressage instruction.

I suggest that that you purchase These books https://www.amazon.com/Susanne-von-Dietze/e/B001K8KIIU/ref=dp_byline_cont_book_1
shes also produced some very good DVD’s

the information here will trump anything you will receive from us.

[outerbanks77]

You mentioned earlier that a friend told you to let your weight flow down through your heels, and that helped with your leg position. I’m actually surprised, because “heels down!” was such a pervasive admonition through my formative years of riding, and now I’m having to overcome it to find my dressage seat. Weight through the heels is great for security when jumping or galloping, but for dressage, it creates a brace in the hips, and tends to push the seat back towards the cantle.

I think the feeling of kneeling, or letting your weight flow down through your kneecaps, is much better. Your toes should be lightly in the stirrups where you can vary the weight easily with a flex of your toe or ankle, and your foot can stay level. Reducing the flex in your ankle makes it easier to keep your lower leg back, and by extension, keep your hip angle open and seat bones forward. On the other end of the equation, make sure you’re riding with your hands up and in alignment bit to elbow. I see a lot of people riding with a downward hand, which again encourages the forward tipping, and creates tension because the deltoids are engaged instead of the lats to maintain contact, resulting in a closed front torso.

[kashmere]

I worked with a coach a few years ago who had me picture myself more as “kneeling” in the saddle than as sitting, which really helped with my alignment. I have very long legs and am just generally lanky, and I occasionally struggle to keep all of my limbs where they need to be.

The kneeling imagery I think accomplishes a similar thing, physically, to @Scribbler 's suggestion of dropping the thigh. I would have a hard time with that direction simply because it doesn’t relate to anything I would actually do in real life, so if you are like me and need a real world connection. “kneeling” might be something to keep in mind.

ETA: I see many people have made the kneeling suggestion! This is what I get for responding before reading thoroughly

[Smthn_Like_Olivia]

@Arlomine

I hate to say this, but “sit back” is a pathetic piece of advise, and if that’s the best your trainer can come up with, its time to find someone with a better tool box.
There are many trainers who are more articulate, and who are truly interested in the biomechanics puzzle of dressage instruction.

I suggest that that you purchase These books https://www.amazon.com/Susanne-von-Dietze/e/B001K8KIIU/ref=dp_byline_cont_book_1
shes also produced some very good DVD’s

the information here will trump anything you will receive from us.

Sit back/up, sit tall, chin up, lift through your chest, legs long - I just threw that one out there because it’s often the quickest thing to say in the moment when you’re flying by on a horse. I live in a small town. Dressage instructors are not plentiful. We are both always on the look out for someone that can help us both improve. It’s not a pick and choose situation unless you’re willing to haul several hours away. Thanks for the books.