Possible Heaves?

[Thinkhorse]

I have a horse that has not been herself lately and I’m worried about her. I decided to do some research and I am starting to think she might have heaves but I wanted others opinions before I pay yet another $150 vet bill where we find out nothing.

About a month ago she came down with a cold and not a small one. She would cough a ton and stuff would come out and she also had a very runny nose. The vet came out, gave me some antibiotics to give her for a week and said I should give her at least a week or 2 off to recover. I did.

I started to gradually get her back into work and after about 2 weeks she was sick again. This time we thought it was colic. She didn’t want to move or eat. She just stood there with her head down to the ground pawing. I starting walking her immediately and called the vet. He came out about an hour or so later and checked her over and said her guts sounded fine and he thinks what ever it was she’s over it now. I gave her a few days off again to let her recover.

I started working her again 5 days ago and she’s not herself at all. She hardly wants to work and after about 5-10 min of trotting she’s breathing so heavy I have to stop. This horse could jump a 2’ 6" course 5 times within a half hour and hardly be puffing before this all happened so it’s completely out of the ordinary.

I just wanted some other opinions before I call the vet, probably a different one this time since the other has found nothing. All comments are greatly appreciated!

[Marla_100]

Get a different vet to check her out. I had a mare that had heaves and it would develop into pneumonia and get pretty serious. If it is heaves you’ll need to greatly reduce her work. My horse could only be used for light trail walking after her diagnosis.

[Foxglove]

RAO (COPD or Heaves) is kind of a general term, so yes your horse could have heaves even though her progression is different than my horse. On your own, record your horse’s temperature, heart rate, and respiration when she is resting. Do it a few times so you have an accurate set of numbers “at rest.” Then work your horse. After work, measure the three (temperature, heart rate, respiration) two min after you stop. That’s the crucial set of numbers that will let you know how your horse is doing breathing-wise (look on line for “normal” and “after 2 min rest” numbers).

If you believe the horse is heavy, then have those numbers in hand for the vet to look at --my vet immediately put my horse on dex and TriHist. That didn’t work. We tried rest. Nope. But with Ventripulmin and Prednozone, my horse is 100% first flight field hunter. Ventripulmin is new --a powerful, expensive bronchodilator --but it works.

In your case, I’d wonder if you want to consider a 'lung flush" to see if there’s a fungus or bacteria causing issues.

Hope your horse is better soon!

[Thinkhorse]

@Foxglove

RAO (COPD or Heaves) is kind of a general term, so yes your horse could have heaves even though her progression is different than my horse. On your own, record your horse’s temperature, heart rate, and respiration when she is resting. Do it a few times so you have an accurate set of numbers “at rest.” Then work your horse. After work, measure the three (temperature, heart rate, respiration) two min after you stop. That’s the crucial set of numbers that will let you know how your horse is doing breathing-wise (look on line for “normal” and “after 2 min rest” numbers).

If you believe the horse is heavy, then have those numbers in hand for the vet to look at --my vet immediately put my horse on dex and TriHist. That didn’t work. We tried rest. Nope. But with Ventripulmin and Prednozone, my horse is 100% first flight field hunter. Ventripulmin is new --a powerful, expensive bronchodilator --but it works.

In your case, I’d wonder if you want to consider a 'lung flush" to see if there’s a fungus or bacteria causing issues.

Hope your horse is better soon!

Thank you for all your help! I did the respiration test earlier today actual and the results were…
Resting- 25
Right after 5 min trot- 66
(these are in breaths per min)

To me these seem VERY high. Thoughts?

[Where_sMyWhite]

PS. Might want to discuss this in the Horse Care forum as this forum is for riders with health issues

[Foxglove]

Not a vet, but resting 25 seems within normal --did you wait 2 min after the 5 min trot? I would either share these numbers with the vet (or a vet) OR try the same “tests” with another horse that is normal --My fellow goes from 18 standing in his stall to 40 standing in the cross ties because he anticipates work (I guess). And he’s a quiet horse. He generally is at 36-40 while working --can go as high as 80 --but always drops to 30-40 after 2 min. The symptoms in my horse are consistent:
Lowers his head like a dressage horse reaching down for the bit
Coughs once or twice
Begins to have audible breathing
At that point I stop what I’m doing until he’s breathing normally.
Only once has he had a full blown asthma attack --he got all wound up in his stall when I took another horse out of the barn and actually was doing a head-down gasping for breath squeeaky-weezie breathing with the “I’m going to die and I know it” look in his eyes. I dosed him with his Ventripulman and talked to him until about 10-15 min he was feeling better.

FYI --as of a month ago --my guy was symptom free --vets are guarded as to if it will come back when he’s back on hay in the winter. His RAO came on suddenly in January (hunted all of December without a symptom) --and was so bad I stopped riding him March-April-May. Bought a new horse --and now he’s symptom free and I have two horses instead of one. No cause was found --hay tested perfect --no other horses in barn sick. Both vets (mine and a specialist) said “age related.” Everything on the WWW supported their Prednoszone Ventripulman medications as needed. Don’t lose hope. Work with your vets --see if there’s a cause (none in my case) then work to controlling the symptoms. We did a lot to try to help (waste of time, vets said) but we replaced all bedding with sand (less dust) --cleaned and shop-vacuumed the mows --new hay from different supplier --100% turn out on pasture . . .hoping for the best!

[Thinkhorse]

@Foxglove

Not a vet, but resting 25 seems within normal --did you wait 2 min after the 5 min trot? I would either share these numbers with the vet (or a vet) OR try the same “tests” with another horse that is normal --My fellow goes from 18 standing in his stall to 40 standing in the cross ties because he anticipates work (I guess). And he’s a quiet horse. He generally is at 36-40 while working --can go as high as 80 --but always drops to 30-40 after 2 min. The symptoms in my horse are consistent:
Lowers his head like a dressage horse reaching down for the bit
Coughs once or twice
Begins to have audible breathing
At that point I stop what I’m doing until he’s breathing normally.
Only once has he had a full blown asthma attack --he got all wound up in his stall when I took another horse out of the barn and actually was doing a head-down gasping for breath squeeaky-weezie breathing with the “I’m going to die and I know it” look in his eyes. I dosed him with his Ventripulman and talked to him until about 10-15 min he was feeling better.

FYI --as of a month ago --my guy was symptom free --vets are guarded as to if it will come back when he’s back on hay in the winter. His RAO came on suddenly in January (hunted all of December without a symptom) --and was so bad I stopped riding him March-April-May. Bought a new horse --and now he’s symptom free and I have two horses instead of one. No cause was found --hay tested perfect --no other horses in barn sick. Both vets (mine and a specialist) said “age related.” Everything on the WWW supported their Prednoszone Ventripulman medications as needed. Don’t lose hope. Work with your vets --see if there’s a cause (none in my case) then work to controlling the symptoms. We did a lot to try to help (waste of time, vets said) but we replaced all bedding with sand (less dust) --cleaned and shop-vacuumed the mows --new hay from different supplier --100% turn out on pasture . . .hoping for the best!

I did the same type of test on my other horse who is no where near as fit as she is. He’s a very small pony so I’m not able to ride him but I work him probably 4 times a week but never anything that hard. This morning his resting rate was 18 and then after about a 10 min warm up of walk, trot, canter and then I free lunged him over probably 20 cross rails. I took his rate right after I was done and it was only 38. That’s 28 less than the very light workout of a 5 min trot the fit horse did…

[Foxglove]

I think you really need to discuss with a vet --for your own peace of mind . . .

[Second_Star_To_The_R]

I’d get a second opinion from another vet. 66 is high for the amount of work you did IMO. Horses don’t go off of feed for no reason, and I wish vets would do more cbc’s for suspected URI especially if it relapses. It’s not a really expensive test and would tell you if you’re dealing with an infectious process as well as whether it is viral or bacterial in nature.

To be safe, did she have enlarged lymph nodes with her first episode?

[Thinkhorse]

The vet does believe she has heaves and so we ordered some medication and are going to hope for the best