Possible Heaves?

[Thinkhorse]

I have a horse that has not been herself lately and I’m worried about her. I decided to do some research and I am starting to think she might have heaves but I wanted others opinions before I pay yet another $150 vet bill where we find out nothing.

About a month ago she came down with a cold and not a small one. She would cough a ton and stuff would come out and she also had a very runny nose. The vet came out, gave me some antibiotics to give her for a week and said I should give her at least a week or 2 off to recover. I did.

I started to gradually get her back into work and after about 2 weeks she was sick again. This time we thought it was colic. She didn’t want to move or eat. She just stood there with her head down to the ground pawing. I starting walking her immediately and called the vet. He came out about an hour or so later and checked her over and said her guts sounded fine and he thinks what ever it was she’s over it now. I gave her a few days off again to let her recover.

I started working her again 5 days ago and she’s not herself at all. She hardly wants to work and after about 5-10 min of trotting she’s breathing so heavy I have to stop. This horse could jump a 2’ 6" course 5 times within a half hour and hardly be puffing before this all happened so it’s completely out of the ordinary.

I just wanted some other opinions before I call the vet, probably a different one this time since the other has found nothing. All comments are greatly appreciated!

[GrayCatFarm]

Call vet. Questions based on my own horse. Does she start coughing when you first transition from walk to trot/canter? Has there been a change in stall that puts her closer to hay/straw stored inside? Is she pasture boarded or stalled? How quickly does her breathing return to normal after exercise? It should drop by 25% in 5 minute increments.

[Thinkhorse]

@GrayCatFarm

Call vet. Questions based on my own horse. Does she start coughing when you first transition from walk to trot/canter? Has there been a change in stall that puts her closer to hay/straw stored inside? Is she pasture boarded or stalled? How quickly does her breathing return to normal after exercise? It should drop by 25% in 5 minute increments.

She occasionally will cough but not every time I start riding. Nothing has changed stall/food wise. Same stall, same sawdust, same hay, same grain, etc. She is outside all day and comes in at night. After even just a 15 or so min trot it takes around 25 min of walking for her to go back to almost normal breathing. She starts to breath hard even when just walking which is also probably why it takes so long to get her to stop puffing after working out. She can catch her breath better if I just let her stand for a few min. She used to go back to almost normal breathing in under 15 min after a hard jumping workout.

[2DogsFarm]

Google RAD (Reactive Airway Disease) & SAID (Small Airway Inflammatory Disease) & ask your vet if either could be involved.
Can you hear rales (creaking/wheezing/rattling sounds) with a stethoscope or even just your ear pressed to her side?

I had a horse develop SAD so bad I could hear rales w/o a scope.
Horse would cough when worked U/S, but never stopped being rideable.
Minimal clear discharge when exercised.
Vet examined & suggested OTC antihistamines for suspected allergy.
Tried TriHist, Cough-Free - w/o any improvement.
When he started developing a noticeable heaveline I called the vet back.

24/7 turnout, free access to airy stall, well-ventilated barn (my own) - hay got soaked when coughing first started.

After 3mos on Clenbuterol (pricy steroid) he cleared up so well diagnosing vet said if he hadn’t heard the lungs he never would have thought SAD.

[AKB]

How is her temperature? Could she have pneumonia? Is she eating well? Do you hear high pitched wheezing sounds when she exhales after exercise? One of ours coughed for several months after having flu. He ended up on antibiotics as there was a question if he had a mild pneumonia. Call the vet.

[Thinkhorse]

@AKB

How is her temperature? Could she have pneumonia? Is she eating well? Do you hear high pitched wheezing sounds when she exhales after exercise? One of ours coughed for several months after having flu. He ended up on antibiotics as there was a question if he had a mild pneumonia. Call the vet.

Her temperature was normal but I haven’t checked in about a week. I’ll check today. She didn’t want to eat one morning but she got over it after about an hour and a half of walking. She makes no noise when breathing she just breaths VERY hard after even minimal work.

[Bellathemustang]

I have a heaves horse, and you have already had some great advice! I have a few thoughts and questions:

*How old is she? Heaves more commonly occurs in adult horses, 15+
*Have you had any new hay? I think of it like a peanut allergy. Just one spec of peanut dust can set someone off. And every exposure thereafter will be worse. Maybe you got a different batch of hay that triggered it?
*Can you try having her in pasture 24/7?
*Also if you supplement with hay soak it in a muck bucket for 10-20 min before throwing it out for her.
*Is she working hard to expel air? Heaves is more like COPD, in that they cant get the air OUT. that is why they develop the heaves line, their abs are working to push the air out.
*Can you count her breaths per minute? Anything over 30 would be concerning.
*She could have a small infection in her lungs from the cold. That actually happened to my girl. She had a heaves episode and was exposed to a horse with a cold. She got a little infection from the cold, which changed how we treated the heaves. You will want to give antibiotics along with the steroids if there is any kind of infection.

It is so hard to see them struggle to breath, good luck to you and your girl!

[Thinkhorse]

@Bellathemustang

I have a heaves horse, and you have already had some great advice! I have a few thoughts and questions:

*How old is she? Heaves more commonly occurs in adult horses, 15+
*Have you had any new hay? I think of it like a peanut allergy. Just one spec of peanut dust can set someone off. And every exposure thereafter will be worse. Maybe you got a different batch of hay that triggered it?
*Can you try having her in pasture 24/7?
*Also if you supplement with hay soak it in a muck bucket for 10-20 min before throwing it out for her.
*Is she working hard to expel air? Heaves is more like COPD, in that they cant get the air OUT. that is why they develop the heaves line, their abs are working to push the air out.
*Can you count her breaths per minute? Anything over 30 would be concerning.
*She could have a small infection in her lungs from the cold. That actually happened to my girl. She had a heaves episode and was exposed to a horse with a cold. She got a little infection from the cold, which changed how we treated the heaves. You will want to give antibiotics along with the steroids if there is any kind of infection.

It is so hard to see them struggle to breath, good luck to you and your girl!

• She is 15 years old
• We have always gotten our hay from the same place. It’s a good quality alfalfa grass mix. We’re still even using the same cutting of hay we have been using for about 3 months and this problem just started.
• I’ve always been hesitant to leave horses out at night but she is out all day other than at night.
• I can’t quite tell if it’s hard for her to get air in or out or both. She just breaths very fast and heavy.
• Her breaths per min are 25 standing and 66 after a 5 min trot
• When she got the cold she got antibiotics morning and night for a week and it seemed to clear out the infection.

I hope these answers help and I REALLY appreciate you taking the time to help me!

[Bellathemustang]

@Thinkhorse

• She is 15 years old
• We have always gotten our hay from the same place. It’s a good quality alfalfa grass mix. We’re still even using the same cutting of hay we have been using for about 3 months and this problem just started.
• I’ve always been hesitant to leave horses out at night but she is out all day other than at night.
• I can’t quite tell if it’s hard for her to get air in or out or both. She just breaths very fast and heavy.
• Her breaths per min are 25 standing and 66 after a 5 min trot
• When she got the cold she got antibiotics morning and night for a week and it seemed to clear out the infection.

I hope these answers help and I REALLY appreciate you taking the time to help me!

It can be a tough puzzle to try and solve! While alfalfa hay is better nutritional quality than the boring hay, it is also a more common trigger for heaves. That is actually what set my girl off! Moved from cheap, plain jane hay to the nice first cutting alfalfa and she was a mess. Soaking it might help, and isnt too bad as far as time (soak for 10-20 min, takes maybe 3 min to prep) and expense (free since you already have the hay).

The thing with heaves, if it is heaves, is that it can change. So what was ok yesterday might trigger today. Every flair up they get more sensitive to triggers, and the longer you can go between the flair ups the better.

I REALLY hope for you and your girl it is just a lingering cold. Heaves is hard. But it is not the worst thing. If you can get it under control and learn her triggers it might just be a once or twice a year flair up. I am actually really into managing my girl now that I’ve researched and implemented some new care practices. I would honestly go out of my way to find a heaves horse in the future because I know they can be great with the right care That was meant to be encouraging a lot of people hear “heaves” and think it is the worst thing.

[EquineJunky]

Call a new vet. If not the start of ‘heaves’ at the least, the horse is telling you she doesn’t feel well.

I battle heaves with my MIL’s 21 yr old horse. Really started about 4 years ago. When your horse exhales, do you see an extra exaggerated push at the end of an exhale to expel air from her lungs? When MILs horse flares up bad, typically I can see the extra push at the end of his exhale. If I catch it quickly enough, there’s not much of a push to exhale and I will not hear wheezing sounds with my ear to his nose. If I don’t catch it quick enough, I can usually hear wheezing/crackles on exhale with my ear to his nose and will see the exaggerated push to exhale.

Neither rinsing nor soaking baled hay will help him now. It no longer has to be hay that seems to set him off. It seems any dust or mildew will. He started having trouble again last Thursday and he’s just out on pasture and not even allowed access to the 3 sided run-in out there as it hadn’t been raining. (The run-in is matted but they go in there with muddy feet when raining and it ends up being a dusty mess once it dries and they continue to go in there and stomp around) Once I get him cleared up, he never coughs during riding. Recovers pretty well from a good gallop around our hills.

When I need to feed roughage he gets hay cubes that seem to keep better being bagged. He is NEVER allowed in his old stall in the barn unless it is truly nasty weather (heavy snow/icy/cold driving rain or extremely muddy - once or twice a year). Otherwise he has access to a matted run-in or I have a separate lot with 2 sided shelter with mats behind the barn I can move him to.

Feed and environment changes have been working well enough that we only keep dexamethasone on hand for when/if he flares. My current hunch/theory is that we have been so dry and pasture is becoming dust/dirt that is irritating him now. We’re finally getting some rain so hoping that will help. Interested to see how the next year goes for him.

[AKB]

I would check her temp twice daily. On another thread, you said her resting respiratory rate was 25. To me, that seems pretty high. My boy was 12 the last time I counted. If you don’t feel the vet is listening to you, it is time for an expensive trip to a vet school hospital. Then, you will know if she has pneumonia, heart failure, a piece of a tree branch up her nose, heaves, or whatever. Most horses with heaves can be managed pretty well.

[Bellathemustang]

@AKB

I would check her temp twice daily. On another thread, you said her resting respiratory rate was 25. To me, that seems pretty high. My boy was 12 the last time I counted. If you don’t feel the vet is listening to you, it is time for an expensive trip to a vet school hospital. Then, you will know if she has pneumonia, heart failure, a piece of a tree branch up her nose, heaves, or whatever. Most horses with heaves can be managed pretty well.

Great recommendation, I thank the lord for the amazing vet school that helped my girl and I. They travel, which is amazing since they had to come out 4 or 5 times over the course of her heaves episode/lung infection.

And you are right on with the resting respiratory rate. 25 is high, but for a heaves horse not abnormally high, a humid day can do that to my girl. I track it daily to start dex and ventipulmin before it escalates.

[GrayCatFarm]

OP,
Yes, the breathing rates you list are high. My gelding could not catch his breath after a lesson, and was not sweating. Vet exercised him on lunge until breathing was over 100, then monitored how long it took to return to normal (12-15/min). As it was abnormal, he lavaged his airway/lungs and the cytology showed inflammatory cells. Then repeated with the clenbuterol, which made a world of difference in how he went and his recovery time was normal. I moved him to a very clean barn that beds on wood chips/sawdust, took the stall closest to the doorway and farthest from hay storage in arena, and bought a hay steamer. He is turned out as much as possible - including 24 hrs which he much prefers. About a year ago he suddenly started coughing really badly, and I realized that my BO had stored a few bales of some crappy hay for the chubby airfern in the vacant stall next to him. It only took 3 days for him to react. That hay steamer has turned into a real selling point for the BO - quite a few horses have allergies to mold in hay. Oh, and no round bales!

[RedHorses]

I have a horse with heaves/COPD/equine asthma.

Your story makes me think that your horse did not manage to clear the crap from her cold out of her lungs properly and is only using part of her lung capacity. Get the vet NOW! The longer she struggles with breathing, the more damage will occur to her lungs and the scaring will be a permanent irretrievable loss of lung capacity. The vet should be listening to her breathe via stethoscope, both sides, upper and lower, and her windpipe. My vets will get my horse to breathe into a plastic bag to reduce the oxygen intake and trigger one or more deep breaths when the bag is removed so they can listen to that deeper breath.

If there is crap in her lungs youshould be getting an expectorant and bronchial dialator to help her clear it out. The expectorant can make her cough much for for a few days (the vet should be telling you this, and how long to expect it so that you can call if it is excessive).

If there is any significant scaring your horse will have compromised lung capacity and may be more likely to develop heaves. Here’s the thing - if your vet gives you a drug, and/or management changes and you don’t see improvement in your horse, call the vet again. Don’t wait until the next time you happen to see/talk to the vet. Compromised lungs are forever, and every day of struggle compromises the lung a bit more.

I have been obsessive about counting breaths at times with my guy. Any time I get to 20+ breaths per minute I know I have to do something about it. I had about 9 breaths per minute one morning last week, and I was celebrating. I’m usually aiming for 10-12 in the summer heat.

I hope your mare doesn’t have heaves yet, and that you can get her lungs clear before she does. You can increase her chances by doing much of the recommended heave care management during her recovery. But get the vet ASAP.

[Thinkhorse]

Not sure if anybody will see this since the thread is old but hopefully someone does… I did a mini “test” on my horse (the one I think has heaves and these were the results…

In breaths per min

Rest- 34 (can only hear a few)

5 min trot- 75 (fast and quick, not very many big breaths, can hear about half)

Another 5 min trot- 91 (very fast and quick, about 1/4 are big breaths, can hear most)

1 min canter- 65 (very big breaths, can hear them all, whole body moves with breaths)

Another 1 min canter- 65 (very big breaths, can hear them all, whole body moves with breaths)

After 2 min walk- 87 (back to fast and quick, can hear all, about 1/2 are big breaths, body still moving)

After 2 min stand- 53 (quick, can hear most but quieter, a few big breaths, body still slightly moving)

Thoughts? BTW we are seeing the vet tomorrow

[Bellathemustang]

@Thinkhorse

Not sure if anybody will see this since the thread is old but hopefully someone does… I did a mini “test” on my horse (the one I think has heaves and these were the results…

In breaths per min

Rest- 34 (can only hear a few)

5 min trot- 75 (fast and quick, not very many big breaths, can hear about half)

Another 5 min trot- 91 (very fast and quick, about 1/4 are big breaths, can hear most)

1 min canter- 65 (very big breaths, can hear them all, whole body moves with breaths)

Another 1 min canter- 65 (very big breaths, can hear them all, whole body moves with breaths)

After 2 min walk- 87 (back to fast and quick, can hear all, about 1/2 are big breaths, body still moving)

After 2 min stand- 53 (quick, can hear most but quieter, a few big breaths, body still slightly moving)

Thoughts? BTW we are seeing the vet tomorrow

The air quality out here is horrible this week, so my heaves horse is right under 30 breaths per minute at rest. No noise, and I can only see them at certain angles. When she is eating I stand at the right angle, set a timer for a minute, and count. She is on Dex and Ventipulmin with the yucky air.

Do you have an air quality app on your phone? it is a free, easy way to see if your breathing impaired horse might have a harder time that day. Also, exercising before 9am on those days should help.

I am glad you have a vet visit, please update. It could be heaves, an infection, or both!

[Bellathemustang]

@Bellathemustang

The air quality out here is horrible this week, so my heaves horse is right under 30 breaths per minute at rest. No noise, and I can only see them at certain angles. When she is eating I stand at the right angle, set a timer for a minute, and count. She is on Dex and Ventipulmin with the yucky air.

Do you have an air quality app on your phone? it is a free, easy way to see if your breathing impaired horse might have a harder time that day. Also, exercising before 9am on those days should help.

I am glad you have a vet visit, please update. It could be heaves, an infection, or both!

[Thinkhorse]

@Bellathemustang

The air quality out here is horrible this week, so my heaves horse is right under 30 breaths per minute at rest. No noise, and I can only see them at certain angles. When she is eating I stand at the right angle, set a timer for a minute, and count. She is on Dex and Ventipulmin with the yucky air.

Do you have an air quality app on your phone? it is a free, easy way to see if your breathing impaired horse might have a harder time that day. Also, exercising before 9am on those days should help.

I am glad you have a vet visit, please update. It could be heaves, an infection, or both!

I just got an air quality app and it said today was moderate. I worked her at around 9:30am this morning and it was around 75 out. Cooler than normal around here. It rained the day before so the arena wasn’t super dusty but it also was not wet and deep. It was just about perfect, so weather and conditions weren’t much of a factor today. I will definitely let you know what we find out tomorrow! Thanks for your help!