I have a Tatendrang filly this year out of my Intermediate TB mare. Great temperament, super mover. Apparently Tate does not normally pass on his 17h-ness, but my mare is 15.3 and filly is ENORMOUS. You CAN expect big ears (xc jump seeking radar ears).
For this year I have that mare bred to Flagmountās Freedom, a 9/16 TB Irish Sporthorse. Evented Intermediate barefoot, packing a Jr around at Training. Has offspring competing (Flagmountās mischief is one), temperament seems goodā¦!
I have a 3yo out of same mare by Royal Appearance, a Holsteiner. Super brain, very fancy. I know he has got At least a 3* horse
My current ride is a 7yo from that mare by Formula One (he had a 4* horse in first crop). Great brain, fab mover, tons of scope. Her abilities far exceed my ambitions at this point in my life I suspect. She also has an excellent sense of self preservation in turnout LOL.
He was still breeding as of the most recent season. I donāt think theyāve been super great about update their webpage, but post quite often on their FB (and occasionally on here). If youāre really interested in him, Iād reach out and see if he will be available for next season. Pretty sure he books up fairly quickly.
OP - yup. I currently have a 4 year old daughter of Mannhattan out of a G line mare Sheās super talented young girl, and a well rounded athlete - great mover, great jumper. Looks a lot more like her sire than her dam. Sheās in training now with an eventing barn here in Virginiaā¦ and they like her lots. Sensitive, but sensible and quiet - and the mare really enjoys variety in her training program. My only complaint is sheās a little heavier and bigger (16.2 and growing) than I would like for me personally. A VERY marketable size though If or when I eventually breed her (still years awayā¦ But I am thinking about it)ā¦ I think she would cross VERY well with a TB approved by one of the Warmblood Warmblood registriesā¦ Or a specific AA stallion I am obsessed with (Bonaparte N). I rode her dam as a youngsterā¦ The G line mare - a Goldfuerst daughter. I definitely think Mannhattan improved on the mare in terms of overall athleticism and the mareās neck in particularā¦ But the G line dam was a special mare in and of herself and had a neat personality. I also think she might have been wonderful if crossed to a TB. My friend owns her now, and has bred her to Mannhattan twice, and Belafonte DāAvalon once for a GORGEOUS Weser Ems sport pony in the 15 hand range. The same friend also owns a different nice TB mare she plans on using Toronto with next season. She has nothing but positive things to say after working with Avalon multiple times. And the G line mare had a few issues which have made her tricky to breed.
Thank you for suggestion! I have added Concerto Grosso to my list of options to check out. Have you known any of his offspring? I am definitely looking to have a lot of TB blood in the baby.
I would have loved to add A Fine Romance to the list, too. Iāve only heard wonderful things!
@Fred Sorry, the Chronicle is not letting me reply for some reason. But, thank you! I will definitely add him to my list of options to check out! Have you known any of his offspring?
I wish I could have added A Fine Romance to the list- Iāve only heard wonderful things!
@Dance_To_Oblivion This is great, thank you! Was there anything that you were trying to correct in your mare? Or, I guess her strengths and weaknesses? Your two fillies are gorgeous! Do you plan to bring them both along?
@beowulf and @gumtree Honestly, I am so new to the world of breeding, Iām bound to use the wrong terms. I absolutely will take any advice from those who have much more experience than me in this area. This thread has been a huge help! Any advice either of you have is greatly appreciated.
@ThirdCharm That is a super exciting combo (your mare and Tatendrang)! Sounds like it will have scope for days! That does scare me a bit on the size, though- I was hoping for nothing bigger than my 16.1 mare What is your mare like? Was there anything specifically you were looking to help in her? I love hearing why people have gone with certain options.
I actually have a friend who has a Flagmount baby and the mare is an absolute gem- so sweet and generous to her rider. Iām not sure why I didnāt think about that, but adding it to the options list!
What is your Formula One mare like to ride? What did she keep from her dam? Ugh- you might have me sold on the self preservation piece. The mare I am breeding has all the scope I would ever need, if she would just go a little easier on herself when left to her on devices.
I really like that you have a bunch of different crosses with the same mare. Which have you felt to be most successful? And, if you donāt mind me asking, what type of ride do you prefer? I am so hoping to get something very much like my mare, but that cover up my dressage inadequacies a bit
@Virginia Horse Mom This is super helpful, thank you! I am a little worried about size. Iām guessing the foal wonāt be the biggest possible, since it is my mareās first, but Iād really like something smaller. She is 16.1 and ideally, Iād like that or smaller. Are you breeding for yourself mostly or for sale? I do like the look of Toronto, what is your friend hoping to get? What is her mare like?
Just above the pedigree next to his name ā¦place cursor on the ( i ) in the circle for his history and the many registries he is approved forā¦ and on the green square for a picture of this handsome black stallion.
@vineyridge why would you not breed this mare to Sea Accounts, why wait a generation?
Sea Hero is the mareās damsire and the sire of Sea Accounts. To me, at least, thatās just one generation too close for comfort.
Foal would be 2x3 to Sea Hero this generation. Next generation would be 3x4, and Iām personally quite comfortable with any cross where the duplicate is in the 4th generation on one side.
I know much closer crosses have been done before and will be done again, but the risks are increased the closer the duplication.
I have a Royal Appearance mare/TB mare (TB was a GP showjumper). Check out RAās and Rivermanās stats for leading eventers and jumpers. There are six local Rivermanās owned by top eventers up here and they are very happy with them. (homebreds). My RA has a great bold temperament with go and whoa and kind mind.
I like RA a lot, especially for a full TB mare. I think with RA youāll get better loin connection, bone and scope. You should see an improved trot from him. Not sure if he improves the walk or gallop. I think he is one of Rivermanās better sons for the amateur market.
FWIW, Riverman is very popular because he consistently makes very scopey, athletic horses. Some of his offspring need professional rides. One of my close friends has bred to him twice. Her mare is a top class Intermediate horse, SWB with tons of movement but unfortunately had chronic injuries that led to her retirement in her teens. She is quiet on the ground but very forward and sensitive under-saddle. Both offspring are an improvement over the dam in terms of scope, and Riverman lengthened the mareās back (she was very short coupled) and improved her neck.
All this talk about R-letter stallions made me remember Roc USA. Is he still breeding? He is fabulous for TB mares and is definitely an amateurās dream. He is more of a hunter or SJ sire but I know there are several event breeders on this board that have used him.
Currently I am breeding for myself, with one mare due in 2018. My friend bred my 4 yr old mare, but I used to own and ride the dam many years ago, so I know the mare line well and can speak as to which traits in my 4 yr old came from Mannhattan, and which came from the mare. Mannhattan was definitely the dominant influence. The mare is VERY smart though and a quick learnerā¦ and I think that came from the G line mare. I will say, I have lots of support with starting her from some great well known eventing people who have a good young horse programā¦ itās been soooo well worth it
My friend breeds mainly for sale. The full sister to my mare, another Mannhattan daughter, was actually sold to a dressage home. Both that mare and mine are beautiful movers. I think they are smart, game horses, and enjoy jumping though. The by mare my friend wants to breed to Toronto is classic, correct and quiet, and more of a distance type. My friend thinks he is going to cross VERY nicely on the TBā¦ but sheās hoping for a 16.2 ish baby. Her TB mare is 16.1 and a maiden as well.
If you are breeding for yourself and looking for more of a super sporty 15.2 nugget (thatās what I personally like ridingā¦ but itās not necessarily the most marketable thing), maybe take a look at Belafonte DāAvalon and ask the SO what size he typically produces with horse mares. My young mareās half sibling by him out of the same G line dam is probably going to top out at 15.3. And is absolutely STUNNING. Just a thought - I bet you he could make a crazy fun small eventing prospect if crossed on a nice TB mare.
Pablito is sire of several eventers - Ping Pong, Pierre, and Powell come to mind. They are very distinctive with pretty blazes and light conformation. His owners are the best ever to deal with.
With Ladyās Levitation, I was hoping for more correct hind leg conformation (she is a bit sickle hocked) and a better temperament. I got her when she was 16 and she can be a bit opinionated. I think Tate improved on those qualities. Objectively the 2016 has the better hind legs, but more of her motherās opinions. The 2017 has more of her Motherās hind legs and more of Tatendrangās sweetness. They are both elegant, good, correct moving fillies that I am really pleased with. The 2016 was sold while still at her damās side and is in a super eventing home. The 2017 is mine and I am so thrilled to bring her along.
With the mare I bred for the 2018 foal I was looking for size and better movement. She is only 15.2 (although her first two foals by a different stallion will both end up about 16.2 i think) and while when she is under saddle she can really look lovely she could use more suspension in her gaits. We will see what happens!
Talking about size, I am coming to the conclusion more and more that Tatendrang really gives the mare and her bloodlines the most input on the foalās size. I own a 17 hand mare that likes to produce huge foals, I leased her to a friend and her Tatendrang filly will likely be 17.3-18 hands (which is annoyingly consistent with most of her previous foalsā¦she likes them to outgrow her lol), but I have also seen Tate babies out of smaller mares that wonāt see 16 hands (or if they do it will be barely). I think both of my fillies currently on the ground will be 16.2-16.3. So unless you own my giant TB mareās twinā¦I think you will be fine size wise, maybe adding an inch or two. But as always all of this is just my opinion, so take that for what it is worth lol
I have unfortunately heard and experienced the same. I didnāt know the mares they came from, so maybe just a coincidence, but I donāt want to chance ending up with crazy.
