Post your Feet Pictures! (AKA: Good Hoof Stuff Every Horse Owner Should Know!)

[slb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Saddith:
I have a question about Robby’s underrun heel… on the first pic the heel has an almost cracked or flaking look. Like a layer of hoof is growing down from the bulb and stops halfway. Does that make any sense what part I am trying to describe? Anyways, is this common in underrun heels? Because my horse has them, and I couldn’t figure out if that was a “symptom” of underrun heels. Are they?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I noticed that too…I can’t tell if it is a real crack or just where new hoof wall has grown down overlapping old hoof wall.

A crack wouldn’t surprise me…if the heels are underrun, they are most likely to long and therefore causing undo pressure on the quarters. So, the result would be cracking from excess forces.

If it is new wall growing over old, then it could be that he blew out an abscess in tha quarter and lost some hoof wall or had some separation at the cononary.

Either way, it will grow out…but may occur again unless the excess forces are corrected.

Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *

[slb]

Martha, there is a good chance that she is “sound”. Are they riding her…pasture sound is one thing, riding sound another. But, it is not uncommon to return “navicular” horses to riding soundness either…especially using NB or similar principles. The majority of navicular cases are really just some sort of heel pain caused by unbalanced feet or generally contraction. High heels play a role too. With a return to proper hoof form and function (some believe that circulation also plays a role) the heel pain subsides and the foot becomes correctly weighted. The horse moves off sound…sometimes in 1-2 trims. It does, of course, take closer to a year to get the foot in optimal condition so that the horse stays riding sound…sometimes 2 years.

My husband’s first therapeutic case was a referal when he was still in the last weeks of school. The horse had been standing lame in a stall for 8 years. He was donated to a therapeutic riding center and hubby was donating trims as part of his education. Within a couple of trims, this horse was pasture sound. Within a couple of more was able to work an hour/day in a flat arena. Later, he was riding sound for all day arena work. He then moved on to light trail work as well. He was retired to our house and a year later we pulled his shoes. We videoed him with and without shoes and saw no difference between the two. He was then shod in concussion reducing shoes for light trail work and some kid lessons until he died. Although it took about 4 years to get him barefoot sound, we now know that it was hubby’s inexperience that slowed progress, not the method.

Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *

[dressager]

Thank you so much! Is there anything I can do without the farrier? I don’t think he’s a very experienced farrier and doesn’t speak english. What do I tell him if I can find a translator?

Again, my horse and I thank you.

Dressager
No two smart men ever agree on anything -Harry Truman

[Robby_Johnson]

I also need to report that the Rhodes man is now on his second reset/shoeing with a shorter toe and has had his heels cut off in an effort to correct their underrun growth pattern. His feet are really looking great. I will clean them up and post some photos this weekend.

Robby

I’m drinking a soy latte
I get a double shote’
It goes right through my body
And you know I’m satisfied

[slb]

Fran, glad you could join us…geez…you’re everywhere! How was the AFA convention? Haven’t seen much intput except on your site. And thanks for the Tufts info. Sounds like a good conference.

I highly recommend Hoof Care and Lamness be one of bookmarks in everyone’s computer. Great site full of cutting edge news, and great magazine!

Two shoes up for Fran and Hoof Care!

Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *

[asterix]

slb, there was a teensy weensy foot thread on Off Course about Rhodey’s mystery lameness, but we all obediently zoomed over here once it became truly a foot thread

[mcmIV]

Wow - I see major underrun heels/long toes. You could probably do a major amount of good in one shoeing just cutting those toes off and bring back the heel. They could look completely different.

I think you are right to be concerned about her suspensory problem - this could easily aggrevate it or cause it again.

As for dryness, I don’t know what the experts think, but I know people at my barn soaked their horses feet in water/applecider vinegar or some concoction. Now these people were obsessive weird about soaking feet every night, but I think the process had merit. If you have an unusual dryness problem it might be useful for you.

Ok - I hope my attachment works out. I tried some fake repairs to the front angles. See the current angle compared to my “fix”. It’s rough but you get the idea! Do you experts think the fix is appropriate to aim for?

My repair might be too upright, looking at it now that ive posted it, but I think its close to the aim, right?

THe shoer needs to set her shoes back under the heel, she needs the toe cut off and the heel brought back - more complicated than im making it sound, but thats what this thread is all about.

martha

Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *

I got an album…started at least! http://community.webshots.com/user/mcmiv

[slb]

I would highly recommend the “New Hope for Soundness” book sold at their website - www.hopeforsoundness.com . It is an overview of their research on wild horse feet and provides some good diagrams comparing good and bad foot forms. However, it doesn’t cover interior information. They also have a very good video on trimming that would show the application on a real foot.

Somewhere in the last half of this thread there is a list of books and references that I use…including websites that provide lots of good pics and info on correct trimming.

Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *

[slb]

Robby…thanks for the clarification…it was very hard to tell from the pic if it was just a layer of horn or a crack.

Bumping this up as we have new people coming from other boards to look…maybe we will get new pics!

Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *

[slb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by katelyn:
More info on the farrier. He had undetected White line for a while (had a resection, almost all the hoof wall was taken off) and typical bad feet. It wasn’t so much one botched trim, but more of a continual 6 month thing (stupid me, I didn’t know).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
OK, I think now I would agree that the farrier may have foundered your horse!
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I’m sure you can imagine how terrible I felt…I had no idea.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, I talk to people all the time that feel that it was their fault…but you can’t blame yourself for trusting a “professional” and for not understanding the entire workings of the foot…that’s like saying that you feel you must know the entire workings of your body because your doctor might be incompetent (but, that’s another thread…)

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>We too all thought of a metabolic/underlying problem. Actually, my vet thought it was Cushings or insulin problems (only 9 yrs old)…but all the blood work came back clear (did each test 2 times).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just a note about this…I also have a mare that continues to suffer laminits every winter (each bout is milder, so we expect that we are begining to get a handle on it). But, we have drawn bloodwork on her 3-4 times with no abnormalties. Because it is a defined cycle, it is obviously metabolic in nature. She is carb intolerant (responds to high carb levels with signs of laminitis, but doesn’t have high insulin or glucose levels).

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The new hoof growth does look better, so as his foot grows out I assume it will look better as it grows out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, it should start looking better this summer as it grows out. The problem will be in keeping correct hoof form and alignment as it grows. The hoof will want to diverge from the “normal” parallel path to the coffin bone.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The first time he foundered was 2 years ago, and the rotation/sinking was pretty much put back into the correct position. So he really only has rotation on the front 2 now…but his coffin bone is sitting directly on his sole.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That will take time to fix…must first get a good stong laminar connection. But, as the new, stronger connection grows down, it will help “raise” the coffin bone up in the foot. Again, correct form with good verticle depth of foot (not the same as a long hoof wall) is important and helpful. You may have to wait 2 to several years for this to resolve.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>He eats a lot less grain (was an OTTB), and also isn’t allowed on grass (most recent founder was because barn workers put him on a new lush paddock for the entire day after being on a dry lot).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I would most likely classify him as carb intolerant and put him on a forage only diet…things like beet pulp (without molasses), alfalfa cubes or pellets, and sunflower seeds are acceptable foods. Hay should be low in NFC…no more than 20%. Some horses can’t take more than 12%. The beet pulp, cubes/pellets, and seeds shouldn’t total more than 20% of his total diet by weight. You would also do well to get hay test for mineral balancing if possible. There is a great Yahoo group that deals with treating metabolic disorders…even if we don’t know what they are…with mineral balancing and all forage diets. Check out EquineCushings for more info. Lots of cutting edge discussion and people to help you. Start with the New Member Primer in the files section.

It sounds like you are already on the right track. Good luck to you and your horse

Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *

[Lisamarie8]

front side

— And how did you feel about being denied these Hungry Hippos?

[betsyk]

Unfortunately I don’t have any new photos but wanted to give an update on my TB whose pix are posted earlier in this thread. I SCORED, and managed to get an appt with our regular farrier on one of the days he works with the Fancy Referral Farrier from the Vet School (otherwise known as the man who saved my horse’s feet last year). He hadn’t seen Texas in a year, and I wanted him to see how he looked a year later and make sure we were on track. He was really pleased, and was especially pleased that he is holding his angles for 6-1/2 weeks. There was a lot of very technical farrier-type conversation . The referral guy is much more willing than our regular guy to dremel and fill cracks, so I had him open up the one I was worried about - and it was CLEAN!! no sign of recurring WLD (knock wood). So I am a very happy camper and Texas seems happy with his latest feet.

[mcmIV]

I used some kind of voodoomarphamagic.

That “repair” was really easy to be honest. Wasn’t even done “well”… you can see the editing on it if you looked. But it didn’t matter for this purpose!

I was so pleased when I did it that I went and showed everyone in the house I could find… “Look at this!!” and I got a lot of “uhmm… so?” and eye rolling.

Anyway…hope it was helpful.

martha

Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *

I got an album…started at least! http://community.webshots.com/user/mcmiv

[slb]

Shadytrake…overall not too bad, but looks like you got some quarter flares in all feet and underrun heels starting. It’s difficult to tell from the pics, but when I lay lines on them, there is a little more difference between front and rear angles than there should be. Also, the solars seem to indicate that the heels are a little forward of the widest part of the frog (where the straight edges turn into the rounded part).

Shouldn’t be to much to fix if the farrier takes the toe back just a little and gets rid of the flares. Also, needs to take the heels down just a little…that will get them back where they belong.

Hope this helps…

Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *

[shadytrake]

Hello everyone. I have just been directed to this thread from the Ultimate Dressage board. After 2 days of reading the posts and looking at the pictures, I have gained a great deal of education.

I have a question if y’all are not too busy.

I have a 1 1/2 year old who just came to Memphis, TN (where it has been WET, WET, WET and muddy) from Denver, CO (where it has been DRY for the last 2 years). What do I need to watch out for as far as hoof problems that can develop.

I have noticed that the frog is softer now than when he first arrived (about 1 1/2 mos ago). I don’t see any evidence of thrush or other icky stuff. I am mainly trying to be proactive.

I will post pictures soon. Thanks for your replies.

[lucky2day99]

My mare’s weird foot

I was going to post this on the other thread I started, but I figured more people are looking at this one (I know I do).

This mare is a 19 year old TB mare. She has severe ringbone in her right front however has been “pasture” sound for about a year now. Originally this foot was nerved (though that did not really desensitize much of her pain at all). She has been turned out 24/7 for 2.5 years now in a soft green pasture. She has not had shoes since the day my farrier pulled them off.

Since she has been trotting “sound” (after a flex test by vet gives her about a 1/5 which is remarkable considering she was a 5/5 lame) we took some xrays in late January. Her coffin joint in her RF has completely fused miraculously. Her pastern is about 85% fused.

I have chosen to keep her out of shoes considering that she has done so well since her surgery. She basically just hangs out.

Her hoof is mishapen. It reminds me of a club foot. My farrier has basically been trimming her to try and keep her as balanced as can be but to not interfere with how the hoof is growing. Like my two vets-- the farrier is worried to do too much with this foot because she has done so well with little interference. We tried all the therapy shoeing we could and it was just terrible for her. When her shoes finally came off-- it took my farrier over an hour to pull off her fronts she was in so much pain.

Anyhow long story short. Even though my farrier has seen this now about 3 times, I was a little concerned about this hole. She has not shown any signs of an abscess unless he drained out and popped before it was caught. She had one abscess several months ago (probably 6-8 months ago) which popped out of the coronary band.

Other than that this is all. The sole is far more prominent on this foot than any of the others. Not bulging out just pretty level with her frog.

Excuse the muddy picture. I had her sprayed off and as I was trying to take pics-- she decided to gallop across the muddy field (we are having flooding here the ground is so wet) as soon as she heard the tractor start to bring out the feed she took off like a bandit. Afterall-- all the pesky mom stuff she feels is inappropriate now considering she is a retired pony. I did not have the time to wash her off again so I had to make due with these shots while she was munching dinner. I will try to get some better ones soon.

C

[slb]

Sure Dressager…glad you could join us
I think at this point we are having problems keeping up with the thread…but, we’ll get to it asap.

Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *

[Bensmom]

Robby,

I hate to say it too, but boy, I like his track feet better than his February 2003 feet. My amateur physics assessment is that is that is what is causing his mechanical lameness – the farther that heel slides forward, the more stress on the ddft, therefore the more irritation at where it ties in to the sesamoid.

I could, of course, be totally off base here. How do his feet look now after the wonder farrier did them? Has he stayed pretty much sound this week? I really think those photos show that he is not genetically designed to have underrun heels and I really do think they are fixable.

Really cool pics, by the way – I like the comparison shots

Libby

Proud member of the Hoof Fetish Clique

[slb]

Ponio…I had to study for this test!

I hope everyone takes a look at your pics as they present an unusual situation. I was very surprised with the solars as this is not the norm for a foot shaped like this. Generally, when the foot is too long overall, there is contraction in the heels and the frog is very narrow. However, in your case, the shape of the feet from the solar view is very good. The only thing that I see is some possible white line stretching…especially in the toe area…but it could just be the pic. however, I would expect to see it with the dish in the toe.

In the left view, the red line shows that there is a dish in the toe wall…to be expected with to long a toe. Additionally, the red line on the hairline shows that there is some excess pressure on the heels (too long) that is resulting in a raise in the line. The white line that I drew on the left view follows the top or the hoof wall (where the dish begins) and what is the “natural” path of the hoof wall and the angle it wants to grow at. Note that is in direct relationship to the line on the heel wall…this is good.

On the front views, note again that the hairline is not parallel to the ground and that it wants to “curl up” at the outside. This again indicates too much pressure in the heels.

A repeat of similar things can be seen on the right view. The only concerns I have overall, is that the toes are dished and it appears that the right shoe is not correctly adjusted to support the heel…it appears to far forward and not back fully under the heel. This could be a camera angle problem.

After careful consideration of your pics, I think that I would refer to look at the AFA article on Uniform Sole Thickness that explains about “false sole”. I think that if you were to get x-rays for your farrier to trim by, that it may be a highly likely possibility that your horse has false soles on all four feet and that they could safely be removed and the foot returned to a normal length.

I hope this helps and keep us posted on your findings.

Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *

[Bensmom]

I too, think slb should get at least eternal gratitude, if not pay for all her work!

I’m on hiatus a bit at the moment. We are at D+1 for Red Hills (D-day for the barn staff being the day our riders arrive!) and I’ve been away from the 'net and the next five days will get worse.

However, I did want to add/ask about bleeding from a trim. Buzz bled a bit from the toe of his front foot at his reset on Monday. I looked like this but my farrier assured me that that happens when you square/rocker toes once in while. He said that if he had hotset him in front it would have sealed it and we would never have seen it.

I’ve never seen this before, and I actually wondered if he’d had a small abcess there – he pulled that shoe a week ago, and went around without one for a couple of days. This horse abcesses more than any I’ve ever owned. It is almost as if he’s allergic to nails and or rocks – anything he steps on, he gets an abcess and he’s had more close nails (even when they are outside the white line) than any of my farrier’s other clients. Actually, he’s had more than all of his other clients put together.

So, since it bled a little, stopped and he isn’t pasture lame, I’ve not paid a whole lot of attention. He will be 3 legged lame if it develops an abcess, so I should know.

That is, if someone at the barn tells me. Today is the day I start running out of time, unless I go out at 1 am to check on them.

Speaking of problems like metabolic problems – have you guys seen a horse like this that seems “allergic” to nails? We thought this was a joke until he had three hot nails in the same reset, all safely outside the white line and we noticed he is reacting now to any injection (the vet says he’s allergic to needles) and any little cut type place is developing an abcess like area.

Really odd. Of course, Buzzy is odd, so maybe that explains it!

So, have you noticed any bleeding with a rocker or squared toe? Is it really “normal” once in a while?

Thanks!

Libby

Proud member of the Hoof Fetish Clique