OK…here’s an OT question…
Evidently, many people are looking at this thread, but few are participating. I would like to know if they all think this is strange and unusual…hogwash…or if it has been beneficial? I don’t think I have ever seen a thread viewed so much and get such little response. Just seems strange to me 
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SLB, I have a question on the “good foot” picture. (reminds me of a James Brown song 
) What size horse is that foot on? What size foot is that? My question is regarding the point of breakover. It looks as if it would be greater than 1 1/4" from the point of the frog to the edge of the foot. Is this just the picture or is this really the case? I’m assuming that this is not a huge foot. Now, from what I’ve learned, I always thought that the breakover should be shorter than this according to the NB principles. Is this the case or have I misunderstood? I do agree that it is a beautiful foot, wonderfully balanced medial-laterally and VERY healthy looking. I have a point to make after I hear the answers to these questions, and a couple other questions for you. Thanks! 
Robby,
I finally got to sit down and go back over Rhodey’s feet – slb, I’d like to know what you think, and HS, if you are out there lurking, please correct my amateur ramblings!
On the right front, on the side view, the toes don’t scream at me that they are too long, but it does appear that the foot is too far forward and the heels are quite underrun. I would imagine that a radiograph will show you a broken back hoof axis and I’d love to see a higher up photo so we could see where his boney column is in relation to his hoof. On the front view photo, it appears, and this may be distortion, that there is a slight flare on the outside of the hoof and the coronet band seems to back this up – it is very slight though, if it exists at all. I’d be interested to check the medial/lateral balance on him as well.
On the left front, the heels look more underrun to me than on the right. And for some reason, the toe looks longer to me on this foot as well. Again, not much, and since I’m spending so much time with this stuff, I may be seeing things, but I also see what may be slight flare on the outside of this foot as well.
From what you said on the other thread, it sounds as if your farrier is willing to work with you, so what I’d recommend would be to shoot a set of AP and lateral radiographs, and sit down and see what you have. You also will want to check and see where the support for his leg falls – I’m going to hazard a guess that most of his weight is being carried by his heels, and it isn’t centered over the widest part of his frog, which can not only mean that his fetlocks are rotating too far with every stride (i.e. not having a support system under them) but it also strains the ddft, the coffin joint and the navicular, so it can set him up for problems. If you can get this right before he really enters work, I think you’ll have a much sounder event horse.
Libby (who would like to issue the standard disclaimer that I probably have NO IDEA what I’m talking about! 
)
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Finally I have pictures and got them scanned of Clancy’s feet.
They were taken about 1 week after he’d had them pulled for winter. Usually he goes in rocker toes in front, and I posted way back about my hind clip issues.
He’s a 17h TB, and knock on wood he is sound.
I’ll start with the front view of the fronts. The cracks start at the coronary band, one he’s “always” had, and the other appeared shortly after he hit a jump rail (I noticed paint on the corornary band).
Because this is the “official” hoof care thread I thought I’d ask this question here:
I recently had my horse’s back shoes pulled because he finally has angles he can stand on without wedges after a year of corrective shoing. My question is should I still oil the back feet? I have heard that it makes the feet soft and pliable and I don’t know if soft is a good thing for a foot without a shoe…
Bensmom…this is too good…I love this thread…I for one, will be looking forward to more pics. Wish more people would participate.
Waiting for pics (hurry)…
Bensmon, another thing, Just had another look at Ben’s feet and they look really good.
The shoeing job looks like a top notch professional job.
And how did Martha set up your pictures???
Thats a great way to present them.
Regards John
Here are the side views of both front feet - I could not get him to stand on any board other than this one, which slopes down. So his left front doesn’t REALLY poind downward.
OK, so my question about Buzz -
It seems like his angles/heel legnth are different left to right. However, it’s almost like the front and back match each other, just not left to right…
does that make sense? Is this my imagination?
martha
**Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day; teach that person to use the Internet and they won’t bother you for weeks. **
I hope this ain’t too big. Gotta run meet my vet in 20 minutes. No time to change it.
“Don’t mince words, don’t be evasive
Speak your mind, be persuasive”
Madonna
Well, Martha, I think you asked the million dollar question on this thread. To be or not to be…“perfect”
I think that we learned from the feral feet that sometimes underrun heels are “normal” and functional. Likewise, sometimes, we see domestic feet that want to run forward because of conformation. I beleive that this is where experience and trial and error come into play. Some horses need “perfect” feet to attain optimal form and function and to always remain sound. Other horse can function with imperfect feet and never take a lame step. The key is in understanding which horses need “to be or not to be” And that comes from experience…of which I have none…only good reading comprehension and retention So, we will have to rely on the wisdom of HS for a better understanding of who does and who doesn’t and why.
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slb, you must be referring to my… err… outrage? on the other posted subject. I really need to get a handle on that particular emotion <LOL> no good justification for it other than that the horse is obviously receiving a great deal of veterinarian care and the likely underlying problem is not being addressed.
Thank you for the welcome and invitation to participate.
I do have a question… I am considering having radiographs taken of all of our horses before their next shoeing - no specific problems, just to be sure we aren’t headed towards any - is there a specific set of films he is most likely to want and if so, do they have names (such as the infamous “navicular series”)? I could ask him, but I was thinking it would be like Xmas in February if I surprised him… I am quite sure the vet who would be doing it has NO idea. But maybe I should forego early Xmas and ask… any opinions on this?
TIA!
Ohhhh…Bensmom…you’re getting toooo good at this I always forget that hubby recommends reducing concusion with many cases. He says that it encourages use and helps promote healing. He has found that some worse cases or older horses sometimes need this protection continued even after healing. You are so right about backing up toes. One barefoot trim group I am on has several people that applied a trim (that shall remain nameless) without success. They now apply what trims that they independently arrived at…but collectively call the LIM (less is more) trim. For the most part, all that they are doing is backing up the toes to optimize breakover according to where P3 resides, and a little exfoliating. Some still need to address bars, flares and heels, but most found that just backing up toes has allowed them to do less and less trimming.
Personally, I generally like to see the NB shoes used. There are concusion pads and other things that can be used with them. Additionally, they have a urethane shoe with a removeable bar in it that can be used on some horses. The beauty of the NB is the rocker toe and the support of the wide web and I love the idea of the bevel on the inside that prevents sole pressure.
Opps…almost forgot…besides alignment of the Ps, check to see if the coffin bone is parallel to the ground in a front view. This is most likely the problem.
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slb, yeah I’m with ya on that last post, (esp the wedges)
I think if Buzzy gets dropped on the outside quarter he will be one sore pony.
It would be interesting to see him with a goob of the quick set equithane in the shape of half a shoe stuck on that lateral quarter, just to see how he moved and felt before shoeing him and building up the foot with more than just a shoe. (That’s under playtime shoeing )
Regards John
Hey guys…come on, just a little more to go to catch the sunnie thread. Yuuu can dooo it
Ishi…I would say that things aren’t as bad as they look. Mostly it looks like they need a lot of clean up work…taking off the dead, exfoliating stuff. The biggest problems are the heels. They need to be taken back to the widest part of the frog (generally where the straight edge of the frog becomes round). Also, if the toes were rockered, that would help get the feet back to a more normal shape.
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Ohhh…Bensmom…you’ve made my day…now I won’t get any work done
And, yes…you probably should go read the “other” thread
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I have new PICTURES. 6 weeks have gone by since this thread started - and thus I have Trim #2 to post.
I put them side by side to see for myself if there is increasing change.
Unfortunately I don’t think I got any good ones of the front - the angle is too far from the front, and therefore his heel looks MORE slopey then it might if it had been dead on the side.
However it looks like the picture has the same problem from December, so they are comparable.
I’m thinking his rear’s are looking pretty darn good. I like his heel much better, and I bet in one more trim it will be perfecto. Comments?
The front… well, I think I’d like to see the heel shorter and less slopey - so we will see what happens in the Trim #3 - maybe I gotta bug the farrier more firmly. Comments?
I wanted to post my Self-Portrait of me and my friend Java taken on the same day - but I had coldweather boogers in my nose.
martha
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**Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day; teach that person to use the Internet and they won’t bother you for weeks. **
Actually, I wrote that whole long story and forgot to ask my questions. So with your fresh set of eyes, is he “looking good?” Where would YOU go from here? I don’t consider that we’re done with the remodeling yet, and we are actually trying to set up a consult with the Referral Guy for his next shoeing. Anyone else been through this sort of thing? when do you decide you’ve done all you can and this is the best you’re going to get?
Just another OT thought…
As we fast approach 9000 views, do you suppose that it can even register 10,000…doesn’t look like room in the column for it. Guess we will just have to wait and see
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