Posting/Rising Trot -- how many ways, which way is correct?

[greengirl]

I am suffering serious confusion and frustration over something that seems like it should be so simple. I feel like I’ve been over-instructed and that this has been over-thought. I am IRKED (!) at the thought that I may have been practicing this the wrong way for months. I need emotional support as well as your thoughts on what I should be doing. If I was the dramatic type, I’d destroy my house while bawling in tears – I am that frustrated.

I’ve now been taught 4 different ways to post/rise the trot over the past 2+ years. Here they are. I have been at #2 since spring. #3 and #4 just occurred today.

1. Riding in a chair seat in hunter land in cc jumping saddle - push off your foot with your heel really far “down” but with lower leg too far ahead, upper body angled forward, smaller “V” angle between upper body and hips, lower leg braced, clear the pommel when posting. RESULT: most likely leading with the shoulders when rising, behind the motion without even knowing it, no good contact with horse’s sides because all I feel is girth, hard to get horse to move forward well.

2. Riding with a trainer from eventing & classical dressage world but in same close contact jumping saddle - dropped down 4 stirrup holes, now inner thighs are not naturally in contact with saddle, so force thighs into contact with saddle by rolling forward on crotch & clamping thighs down, ride basically on inner thighs while posting, posting is more like a form of two-point, slide up the saddle to the pommel rather than clear the pommel, center of gravity is markedly forward, “V” angle between upper body and hips bigger, feet float above stirrups and slip around, lower leg tends to slip back. RESULT: great inner thigh workout, better shoulder/hip/heel alignment, maybe looks a bit weird, much less weight in stirrups, can adjust foot in stirrups easily but feet slide around, lower leg slips WAY back, crotch is sometimes crushed, am I gripping with my knees, easily set off balance in a forward direction.

3. A trainer from Western world saw me doing #2 and had me just relax - weight back more & centered, no trying to ride off my thighs, don’t worry about clamping inner thighs to match saddle shape, just let the horse’s movement push me up, very relaxing for me and horse, lower leg was much more quiet, try to get lower leg back but don’t force it too much. Result: no upper body lean forward, small, tiny post, very relaxing, no effort, happier rider and horse, slight chair seat but not terrible.

4. On the same day as #3, a former trainer from dressage world gave me another version - shorten stirrups up 4 holes which put inner thigh back into contact with saddle (yay!!), post really HIGH and really clear that pommel, do not lead with shoulders. Result: really out of breath from posting so high and really moving my pelvis forward with energy, horse moved forward much better.

Please educate me. Are these just various forms of rising trot? I always thought it was a simple thing where you allow the horse to push you up and it’s the rider’s job to just control the downward motion. Should there be such effort put into it? #3 seems in line with everything I read, plus it felt good.

Apart from that, if you have experienced similar confusion over this or anything else riding-related, I’d love to hear your story. I feel as if I am learning to speak a language but am being taught 4 different dialects!

I am also posting this in the dressage forum to see what they have to say about this.

[Equitational]

You’re best bet it to take lessons from a well respected hunter/jumper trainer. The dressage trainer is teaching you to post and ride for dressage and a dressage saddle. Same for someone with a western background. Eventers are a lot different from hunter/jumpers too.

Your stirrup should hit your ankle bone when your feet are not in your stirrups and legs are relaxed. You should be forward on your crotch and hips and land toward the front of the saddle. You should not pinch with your knees or thighs for hunter/jumper (that’s more dressage). Your post should be exaggerated or forced; it should be a natural reaction to the horses impulsion and natural thrust. Your body should be just in front of the vertical; dressage and western would have a slightly more open hip angle, sometimes even behind the vertical.

But again, a lot of this depends on the riders conformation and the horses conformation and movement. Your best bet is to read hunter/jumper books, look at pictures of examples in those pictures (and other respected equitation riders) and copy that. Dressage people are going to probably say things different from hunter/jumpers because in theory, they DON’T post the trot at upper levels and have different goals to what they are trying to achieve with their horse.

ETA: A good exercise at finding your center of gravity at the trot is to do “up two, down one”, meaning you post “up” two beats (instead of one) and then come “down” one beat, and repeat. So you’re staying in the air out of the saddle an extra beat/step. Your body will naturally find the center of gravity.

[copper1]

For hunt seat, your base of support is your legs and they need to be in contact with the horse from ankle to thigh. Press down into your heels with your little toe against the outside branch of the stirrup and the stirrup angled forward. Press hard enough to keep your heel down and the stirrup perpendicular. ankle is flexed. You post off your whole leg, not concentrating grip into anyone area as that causes a pinch which will allow another part to move too much. Your upper body will angle slightly forward towards your horses ears by closing your hip angle, not leaning forward. Always maintain the straight line ear, hip, heel. One post as high as needed. Usually only as high as the horse puts you. Learning to control your speed and rhythm of the post is a strong aid in controlling the trot

[findeight]

Each discipline has different requirements for rider position to allow them to stay in balance with the horse as they perform the requirements of each discipline.

Everybody is right here based in their experience. The Western trainer is going to want riders in more of a chair seat, a little behind to sit the spins, stops etc allowing the horse to work almost independently (so would a Saddle Seat trainer for different reasons).

The Hunt Seat trainer wants riders to be able to ride the forward seat for galloping and jumping with weight out of the seat but still controlling the horse with leg and rein aids.

Dressage trainer wants riders glued to the tack from seat to foot for precise control of every step.

This is a pretty simplistic explanation but best results are obtained by picking an instructor/trainer specializing in the discipline you are most interested in.

[All_the_Shenanigans]

The correct lower leg position and correct posting is whatever allows YOU to be in BALANCE with the horse and FUNCTIONAL with your aids. Every one is built differently and a lot of instructors spend too much time trying to fit everyone in a box. Find your best BALANCED and FUNCTIONAL position and stick with it.

Try up down up down stay up. If you are falling forward or backwards you’re not balanced. Find the position with your weight in your feet and your hip balanced over your leg. This basic balanced position should allow you to adjust between saddles and different styles of riding (h/j, western, dressage, etc.)

[All_the_Shenanigans]

The other way to look at why you need to be balanced is because if you are not balanced your horse can never be truly balanced. They also tend to appreciate when you don’t move around too much. Try giving a piggy back ride to a wiggly 5 yr old. The more they wiggly the more it’s hard to stay up right.

You should have even contact with your leg from ankle to crotch. Grip with the back of your calf and the back of your inner thigh. You should not be gripping with the front of your knee because it allows your lower leg to swing. If your base of support is constantly moving. It’s impossible to keep yourself in a constant state of balance.

If you watch really good riders you’ll notice their lower leg never moves. Even when jumping they are constantly balanced over their leg.

If you can do lots of work on a lunge line without reins working on two point/jumping position you will naturally develop this same solid lower leg.

I’ll go get off my soap box now

[misssarahannie]

You should never be posting high enough to clear the pommel.

[OveroHunter]

Here’s the quick version of what is easiest for me: Get in two point for maybe a turn around the ring or so. Concentrate on lowering your heels. Get the muscle memory from where the two point places your leg. Sit back down and keep that leg position. Post lightly, you should not be coming far out of the saddle. Your pelvis should be tilted slightly forward, but your shoulders should be back so that they are over your heels and hip in a straight line…

Pay a good hunter/jumper trainer to tell you what to do. No matter how much I know things, I need someone on the ground to yell at me.

[Foxglove6]

I think posting is easy to learn and takes a lifetime to perfect. Don’t worry that there are different methods. We are always learning!

For me, I had a better time posting when I thought about bringing my pelvis forward rather than up. It actually results in less air between me and the saddle. The slight forward movement is all you need and the horse’s thrust should push you up the rest of the way.

I also do a lot of posting without stirrups practice. Make sure to keep your toes up and heels down. Where does your leg land? What feels best for your body and your horse? I think that should inform your decision about your stirrups.

Good luck! Thinking about this and trying different things is a good quality to have!

[PonyPenny]

Who ever thought posting was complicated? I have ridden both hunt seat and dressage and even western on trail rides and I just post without even thinking about it.

[AmarachAcres]

[QUOTE=PonyPenny;8349989]
Who ever thought posting was complicated? I have ridden both hunt seat and dressage and even western on trail rides and I just post without even thinking about it.[/QUOTE]

While I am happy that it is easy for you, your reply is not constructive to someone asking for help.

[Scratch_N_Dent]

I am finding this an interesting discussion as, when I glance out and see someone riding in the back rings or field at the barn, I can easily tell who it is when they are doing a posting trot, but not so easy when they are walking or cantering. You are going to see a lot of different stuff based on discipline, horse, saddle, body shape. Generally the goal is to find that happy balance point that is suited to your discipline, horse, and tack.

[Delaney]

[QUOTE=AmarachAcres;8350058]
While I am happy that it is easy for you, your reply is not constructive to someone asking for help.[/QUOTE]

Exactly… And though posting comes naturally for many of us, does proper posting come naturally??