Potential TB Sport Horse Stallion- Opinions Sought

[vulpinemeadows]

Hi everyone, I’m new to the forum and I’ve been reading everyone’s opinions on the TB stallions available for sport horse breeding, etc. I am trying to decide if I should geld my stud and go with something different or if he is worth trying out. He was not a good race horse, although he was sold for a lot of $$, but he did not reach his potential. He has an excellent temperament, I ride him bareback and hack around and he is a doll about it, even in sight of the mares. He is 16 hands tall and isn’t downhill, but more level, but I would not say uphill. He sired one gorgeous colt out of my one of my TB mares which tragically died in a paddock accident before weaning. Anyway, I would appreciate constructive comments, not just geld him. Perhaps a way to have any offspring inspected, as he would be tough to get to his athletic potential as he is arthritic from off the track. Of course, I can’t tell if this is from racing or genetics? He also has a direct sire line to Man O’War, which there are not many TB stallions left with that sire line, and the ones that are, cost a pretty penny in Kentucky.

His pedigree is here:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/lost+soul3

His conformation picture is on the pedigree too. That’s at the track.

Thanks for checking this out and any opinions are great. I added him into the sport horse data base so you could evaluate his pedigree in depth.

Lost Soul

[Timex]

So, what has your guy DONE? Does he have a competition record of his own? I’m on my phone, can’t see his conformation pic, so can’t speak to that. His breeding is just a small part of the whole picture… Would need a whole lot more info.

[Simkie]

In general, for a TB to be considered to breed for sport, he either has to excel in sport himself or have foals that do. Occasionally, a very nice race record, stellar conformation and a solid pedigree for sport will get people interested.

I don’t see any of those things here. This guy might be very sweet, but not a horse I would choose to breed to. If you can breed several of your own mares and bankroll the foals up through the levels until they are winning convincingly, that would likely get people interested. Short of that, I just don’t see anything terribly compelling here.

Timex, here is the race record:

http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=8002684&registry=T

A couple wins in the claiming ranks. 19 starts. 2-5-3. $33,795 won.

[Simkie]

Does anyone have the Blood Horse stallion register? The actual book? I can’t find mine, but in the back it breaks down how many stallions in the book track back to each sireline. I can’t find it online.

I did find this article that states the In Reality sire line is the fifth most represented in Kentucky, with 9 stallions standing:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/89047/kentucky-sire-lines-for-2015

There are 5 sons of Relaunch himself in the online lookup and 6 of Successful Appeal.

So, to address how “rare” the sire line is…not very. It’s not Northern Dancer or Mr P popular, but there are enough of these horses out there to be choosy. They mostly stand outside of Kentucky (the only KY sire included in the 11 Relaunch/Valid Appeal sons is Successful Appeal) so they’re pretty accessible.

For example, I have Canaveral a few hours away:

http://www.ans.iastate.edu/centers/equine/?pg=canaveral

He’s a stakes winner, has produced race horses and I hear his get have done nicely for sport.

Also note in the article above that Seattle Slew is the third most popular sire line in Kentucky. There are A LOT of Seattle Slew bred horses out there, and the 4x4 Slew in your stallion will eliminate some potential breedings to Slew bred mares.

[vulpinemeadows]

Very true. I was leaning towards gelding him, so this helps me feel better about that.

[mkevent]

It seems that there are also lots of people that don’t care for Storm Cat, so that could also turn off potential customers.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I actually like his pedigree quite a bit. I’m one that doesn’t mind Storm Cat and given the other lines in his pedigree I like him.

On his conformation picuture…he looks generally fine but like a race horse. To stand for Sport horses, his top line would need to be improved. I can tell it would…but many sport horse people can not. He has a SC butt that I never love the look (I think it is the tail set that I just don’t find pretty) but from a functional perspective, many of them are good movers and jumpers. The one I own (through Stormy Atlantic) is one of the smartest horses I’ve ever retrained.

But honestly…there are a lot of TBs standing for sport horses, just not many that are approved with any WB registry or with great show records. So at this point, he isn’t any different from most of them. Things that would make him stand out would be getting him approved by some of the WB registries and putting a competition record on him. Show that he is a sport horse and may be likely to produce some. And of course, having some offspring also do well in sport.

It is a huge PITA to stand a stallion and the vast majority of them do not come close to covering their cost. If he was mine…I’d geld him and make a nice event horse out of him and not worry of bothering to stand him as a stud. Or you could collect him, and freeze some semen to use later before gelding him.

[Kyzteke]

He sounds like a sweet, kind boy and the saying is a nice stallion will make a super gelding. I think you are right on track about gelding him. His pedigree isn’t bad, but the fact he had such a bad racing career will not make him appealing for breeders who breed for racing.

The fact that he is arthritic at such a young age after a (relatively) short racing career would make me scratch him off the list as a sport horse. There are horses out there who race till they are 4-5-6+ with 30 or 40 starts and still retire sound. THOSE horses can take a beating physically and still stay sound…and that’s what you want for sport.

And, as others have noted, for his use in the WB world he would have to be approved, tested, etc. and that is a long, expensive journey that requires alot of training…not to mention a sound horse.

His conformation is also more like a race horse than a sport horse.

So the only way he could “prove” himself as a producer would be if you managed to get a number of his get into sport and they proved themselves to be successful…again, NOT a cheap proposition.

Hopefully he is still sound enough to be useful as a riding horse and it sounds like you enjoy him. Geld him, enjoy him…and he will have a happier life as well.

[camohn]

his confo for sport horses is Ok but not stellar. His pedigree going back 3 generations is pretty decent but again not stellar. no big name ooh ah horses like Alydar known to throw a consistent jumper. Storm Cat is iffy in sporthorse land. Some of his offspring are good, some tend to have a very heavy body (aka too heavy for their legs/ disproportionate) and some of his offspring are very “tough” to handle on the temperament end. Thus not being a consistent SH favorite. Your guy at least sounds sweet. So…given all that: would have to see a video of him moving to see how that looks and would want to see him schooled to freejump to see his form ability there. If he cant be jumped I would geld him. He didn’t race well so not being stellar on confo or sporthorse pedigree, folks are going to want to see him actually jump.

[vulpinemeadows]

Thanks everyone for weighing in. I appreciate it.

[DaniW]

I wouldn’t try to promote him as a sport horse stud unless he has an extensive jumping or eventing record. If he turns out to have a fantastic jump, there’s a possibility but he looks like a race horse, not a sport horse.

[ThirdCharm]

Look at stifle vs elbow… He is downhill. And straight behind. Looks like a sprinting racehorse not a Sporthorse.

Jennifer

[epowers]

[QUOTE=ThirdCharm;7923288]
Look at stifle vs elbow… He is downhill. And straight behind. Looks like a sprinting racehorse not a Sporthorse. [/QUOTE]

In that respect, he looks just like the top three-quarters of his pedigree says he ought to. I like the build of Capote and Caro for sport better, but they are a ways back there.