A friend of mine works at Churchill and she texted me this morning to ask if I knew why you would poultice over DMSO before wrapping. I have no clue. Anyone? Apparently this is a favorite of the trainer she works for.
DMSO has many diverse uses including in medicine acting as a drug delivery system since it penetrates the skin so well and easily. Linked with antifungal medications it not only penetrates skin, but toe and fingernails.
It also has a high freeze point -18*C - meaning at room temps its literally a solid which can limit its utility but offers benefits such as crystalization with cooling.
Its also an excellent paint stripper! ([part of the dissolving characteristics of this drug).
Alone, DMSO can reduce inflammation and pain, combined with the poutlice, that is a tendon tightener, it can draw and offer great relief to a horses legs.
Many trainers use a epsom salt poultice. Others will blend into their poultice- Furazone, Ichthammol, DMSO, or an assortment of other drawing ingredients.
Let me quote Professor David Ramey DVM - “Tissue is not permeable by poultice, which is good, since absortion of clay or other earthen materials into the circulation would presumably be very bad for the horses health”
With that said, being that DMSO is a carrier of other substances through the skin, these earthen/clay properties are being carried into the horses circulation.
So you draw your own conclusions.
[QUOTE=Dahoss;5817398]
Let me quote Professor David Ramey DVM - “Tissue is not permeable by poultice, which is good, since absortion of clay or other earthen materials into the circulation would presumably be very bad for the horses health”
With that said, being that DMSO is a carrier of other substances through the skin, these earthen/clay properties are being carried into the horses circulation.
So you draw your own conclusions.[/QUOTE]
This is nonsense, although I would not use DMSO with a poultice personally. Poultices do cool tissue, they do not draw or permeate the skin, they cool, period. If you mix Bowie Mud with the other favorites, of vinegar and glycerin, it will hold longer and the vinegar is supposed to enhance that “drawing” ability. It does work, just like standing in mud or mud baths, tend to either soften, tighten or “cool” the skin depending upon the mineral qualities of the clay. So much for the “expert” goof ball perfesser. Earthen clay in the blood vessels through hair and the very tight, dense skin of the leg. good grief, sounds like Greenie science.
[QUOTE=Calamber;5817944]
This is nonsense, although I would not use DMSO with a poultice personally. Poultices do cool tissue, they do not draw or permeate the skin, they cool, period. If you mix Bowie Mud with the other favorites, of vinegar and glycerin, it will hold longer and the vinegar is supposed to enhance that “drawing” ability. It does work, just like standing in mud or mud baths, tend to either soften, tighten or “cool” the skin depending upon the mineral qualities of the clay. So much for the “expert” goof ball perfesser. Earthen clay in the blood vessels through hair and the very tight, dense skin of the leg. good grief, sounds like Greenie science.[/QUOTE]
I have no idea what you think you read. Try re-reading it again, but put down the bottle first.
This guy has quite an extensive resume of books written, articles and scientific papers published and lectures given for a “goof ball perfesser”
http://www.doctorramey.com/publications/books/
[QUOTE=Dahoss;5818075]
I have no idea what you think you read. Try re-reading it again, but put down the bottle first.
This guy has quite an extensive resume of books written, articles and scientific papers published and lectures given for a “goof ball perfesser”
http://www.doctorramey.com/publications/books/
http://www.doctorramey.com/publications/scientific-papers/
http://www.doctorramey.com/about/lectures/[/QUOTE]
I think that whack job in Europe who got half the world to believe vaccines cause autism also had quite the resume of books, papers, and lectures. Doesn’t make him any less of a charlatan.
DMSO is a solvent that will facilitate the transport of some other substances through the skin, but there is still a limit to the molecular size of the substance that can be transported. I think the substance also has to react in a specific way to the DMSO for it to be transported.
I think what’s being said is that the DMSO will not adequately “dissolve” the ingredients in a poultice and the molecules of the poultice will still be too big to cross the skin, regardless of the presence of DMSO.
As always, though, I could be wrong.
[QUOTE=alspharmd;5818313]
I think that whack job in Europe who got half the world to believe vaccines cause autism also had quite the resume of books, papers, and lectures. Doesn’t make him any less of a charlatan.
DMSO is a solvent that will facilitate the transport of some other substances through the skin, but there is still a limit to the molecular size of the substance that can be transported. I think the substance also has to react in a specific way to the DMSO for it to be transported.
I think what’s being said is that the DMSO will not adequately “dissolve” the ingredients in a poultice and the molecules of the poultice will still be too big to cross the skin, regardless of the presence of DMSO.
As always, though, I could be wrong.[/QUOTE]
Yes, you are wrong. /wink - What is being said is, that poultice ALONE cannot cross the skin, same as most any other substances, but mix with DMSO and now you have the vehicle for transport. Regardless of substances molecular size, there is ALWAYS going to be a small residue amounts capable of crossing over(same as the money wasting large moleculed Cosequin in the horse’s intestines), not to mention many of the other substances added into the product.
Such as, perhaps, all the wee microbials present in the poultice, particularly after grooms have stuck their unwashed hands in the tub god knows how many times?
The very idea that poultice is “cooling” is hooey. Maybe for the first 30 seconds, if you kept the poultice on ice. Beyond that and it will warm right up to body temperature. Look up “poultice” on non-horse terms and you will find its supposed benefits are derived from a warming effect.
But, for poops and giggles, let’s just say this “cooling” property of poultice is factual. That being the case, using poultice in combination with DMSO would be completely counterproductive. Poultice pulls heat out; DMSO draws stuff in.
It sure makes us feel good, though, to slather topical preparations on our horses’ legs in the name of reducing inflammation within the joints. Hey, who am I to argue with generations of tradition, right?
My experience with poultice is that if the horse is carrying any heat in the leg the poultice will dry out quicker. Kind of tells you what might be going on.
When I poultice a leg I was taught to cover it with wet brown paper (supposedly there is DMSO in the paper) not plastic.
When unwrapped in the morning the paper is dry and if no major heat in the leg the poultice wont be completely dry.
Just my 2 cents
M
I’ve never heard of DMSO being in paper unles you put it there. As far as poulitce, it draws when it dries, not so much a cooling effect, but it will draw out excess fluid, thus tightening and removing heat (which could be considerd “cooling”).
DMSO is a by-product of wood, but it has to go through a process first to draw it out. So dont know how effective brown paper is.
[QUOTE=Dahoss;5818075]
I have no idea what you think you read. Try re-reading it again, but put down the bottle first.
This guy has quite an extensive resume of books written, articles and scientific papers published and lectures given for a “goof ball perfesser”
http://www.doctorramey.com/publications/books/
http://www.doctorramey.com/publications/scientific-papers/
http://www.doctorramey.com/about/lectures/[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Al Gore has quite a resume too.
[QUOTE=Monarch;5819695]
My experience with poultice is that if the horse is carrying any heat in the leg the poultice will dry out quicker. Kind of tells you what might be going on.
When I poultice a leg I was taught to cover it with wet brown paper (supposedly there is DMSO in the paper) not plastic.
When unwrapped in the morning the paper is dry and if no major heat in the leg the poultice wont be completely dry.
Just my 2 cents
M[/QUOTE]
I was taught to put wet brown paper over poultice too, not for the DMSO effect though…but for keeping the poultice moist longer, and keeping your bandages clean!
Still trying to figure out how putting DMSO on top of poultice would work…
never heard of adding DMSO with poultice.
I’d ice legs a few times, then poultice if I’m just looking at a preventative (and never consider the poultice really significant)…I’ll save adding DMSO to putting in on the soles of their feet—its great for helping take the sting out.
I could be wrong but I thought the primary reason one would apply DMSO to a leg or muscle is not to “draw” anything out but to arguably increase circulation. If you put it on your self…like a shoulder or leg…it will feel warm (not cold). Increasing circulation might help in the healing process (and can remove inflamation as a result)…but if I’m looking to reduce damage from inflamation after a strenuous work out (which is usually the purpose of putting poultice on legs)…ice is far more effective. If I’m looking at treating an injury that I know is there already…then I might be looking more at increasing the circulation to an injured area and therefore use DMSO.
Not sure if I’m making any sense…and I’m not a vet or scientist…but have been a groom and around a lot of very good horsemen (and high perfomance horses)…and never was it suggested to add DMSO with a poultice.
Mud poultices cool by evapouration. It’s a chemical fact. It takes energy for the water molecules to go from liquid (caught in the clay) to gaseous form. That energy comes from the heat in the leg. So it removes heat from the leg. The brown paper slows the process, to extend the cooling effect. Using plastic on top of mud defeats the purpose, because the water can not escape at all, while the paper just slows it, so is effective. The paper should be soaked first, before application to the mud.
I always thought that using DMSO in conjunction with mud was counterproductive, since the DMSO will open blood vessels and bring heat to an area, PLUS the concern of what it takes through the skin surface when mixed with other substances (mud). However, on the advice of a senior vet in Calgary, I did use it on a tendon bruise (scanned no tendon fiber damage), and it did indeed bring the swelling down overnight in a most amazing manner. So there you go.
We’ve added DMSO to Bowie Clay to pack feet.
I am a HUGE fan of using Poultice! Put a layer of poultice, wet paper bag, quilt & wrap!
I have used clay poultice on hooves as well as epson salt soak:)
from Nancy M:
Mud poultices cool by evapouration. It’s a chemical fact. It takes energy for the water molecules to go from liquid (caught in the clay) to gaseous form. That energy comes from the heat in the leg. So it removes heat from the leg. The brown paper slows the process, to extend the cooling effect. Using plastic on top of mud defeats the purpose, because the water can not escape at all, while the paper just slows it, so is effective. The paper should be soaked first, before application to the mud.
I always thought that using DMSO in conjunction with mud was counterproductive, since the DMSO will open blood vessels and bring heat to an area, PLUS the concern of what it takes through the skin surface when mixed with other substances (mud). However, on the advice of a senior vet in Calgary, I did use it on a tendon bruise (scanned no tendon fiber damage), and it did indeed bring the swelling down overnight in a most amazing manner. So there you go.
+1
Yes, exactly.
I’d never mix DMSO with any substance you didn’t want in your horses blood - poultice, clay, etc.
Yes, I have used DMSO and poultice before, on the advice of a vet. I’ve used it on splints and acute swellings (banged knee, etc). I haven’t noticed a huge difference with or without the DMSO, but it didn’t hurt anything.
As for “Does poultice really work?” Yes, it does. It feels like an ice pack for about 3 hours (perhaps longer). I had my shin galloped upon by a large TB several years ago. Nothing broken, but it was the most awful, painful bruising and swelling you can imagine. I poulticed my leg twice daily for two weeks and it really helped. Ice alone hurt like hell and I couldn’t stand it very long. But the poultice was a “gentle” cold, that maintained for at least 3 hours (or until I fell asleep). The only part that sucked was it stuck to stubble leg hairs, painful when it dried!! 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but poultice is typically left on horses far longer than 3 hours.
Leave it on your leg underneath a standing wrap overnight, please, and then report back if the cooling sensation of the poultice persists.
I stand by my sentiment that the cooling property of poultice --particularly in regards to reducing inflammation in a joint!-- is hooey.
