Pour-in Pad Question

[Dawdler]

My mare was lame back in the fall. Nerve block indicated it was in her heel, xray and ultrasound were inconclusive. She slowly improved over several months, but was left landing very lightly toe first in the trot on both front feet. Called out a second vet for a second opinion and she thought that her heels were too low and it was causing strain on her navicular/DDFT. Duct taping 4 degree wedges on her feet with a marked improvement in her movement seemed to confirm. Farrier came out and took her toes back as much as possible and put wedges on, but with little-to-no improvement for another few months. As a last resort, the last time he was out he added pour in pads, and all of a sudden I had my horse back! She was landing heel first with both front feet and was much more relaxed and seemed happier.

She continued to improve for all four weeks until her next farrier appointment (short time between appointments because her feet are growing quickly now that it’s springs/summer and we’re trying to keep on top of her toes), but she was done again this past week, and she’s returned to landing lightly toe first. The only differences were that my farrier took her back toes back more than he had because she was pulling about a shoe a week, and he used only one tube of pour in pad instead of a tube and a half (which is what he had used the previous time) (she has big feet). I can see that there is less of the pad in there than previously, this time some of the netting towards her heels is exposed whereas the whole sole was covered last time. It sort of seems like a no brainer to me that this is the difference, but I don’t really no much about these pads, does that make sense to someone who does?

I’ll call my farrier on Monday - it’s not an emergency - but just trying to think it through in the mean time.

[AKB]

We had a horse who was only sound with pour in pads. He was 18, and in hard work. We did pour in pads for quite a few years. Regular pads did not help him.

[ShotenStar]

I just started my trail horse in pour ins. She is 21, has Cushings (on Prascend), and probably has a case of sub-clinical laminitis. She is much, much happier with the pour ins than she was with previous experiments with leather and rubber pads. Her entire demeanor has changed and she moves out nicely on the trails. Just think how your attitude changes when you take off a pair of too tight shoes and put on your comfy slippers.

Star

[Kolsch]

How does the hind end feel or look with the breakover moved back?

Is the pour in filled to the same level in the front as it was last time? Did your farrier immediately have your horse stand on the hoof after filling, or hold the hoof in the air for a minute or two? Did he/she use the Styrofoam board?

It could be that the less filling hasn’t given her the support she desires. It could be that the method, warmer(?) temps (faster set rate), resulted in the pad actually being slightly “taller” than it was last time and what was once good support has crossed the line into a slight pressure.

It could be that the farrier inadvertently has a little sole pressure with the shoe, that can be a little tricky when moving the shoe back.

It could be that the trim changed… something in the overall balance of the hoof. Hooves, especially hooves you’re making a lot of changes on, change and need a different trim each time, it can be tricky to dial it in 100% every time.

It could be that the hind end dynamics are affecting the front end dynamics- some horses are far more sensitive to that than others.

Other things that are taken in consideraton- ambient temps affect hardness after curing, what’s good in the summer might be too hard in the winter, and some products gradually become harder over the shoeing cycle.

Support via load sharing but not so much that there is pressure, as defined by the horse being shod, is the goal. Some are more opinionated than others. The sole still needs to be able to flex some.

Personally, because the majority of problems I’ve seen with pour ins and impression material has been too much pressure, I err on the side of “not enough” (softer, cure while weight bearing, etc.) and otherwise build in a larger margin of error for myself. Which at some point will bite me in the butt, because that’s the way it all goes.

[PNWjumper]

Can’t address the shoeing-for-function aspect of things, but I can make a suggestion. You mentioned that your farrier changed things because she was pulling a shoe a week. Been there, done that. Try shoe secures. They’re the only thing I’ve ever found that actually keep shoes on almost regardless of the situation. Not affiliated with the company in any way, but they were a total and complete lifesaver for me with one of my horses. www.shoesecures.com.

With that being said, I noticed something really similar on another horse in the FEI classes this week at a horseshow. It was a thin plastic covering over the heels of the shoe that looked like a cross between a quarter bell boot and a shoe secure. I’m now on the hunt to find out if there’s some type of new boot. I would jump on that in a heartbeat! Love the shoe secures, but they’re a pain to put on and take off and also increase the wedging in the foot a bit. The horse I used them on didn’t seem to mind (though I removed them to ride in for that reason), but it worries me with my already-wedged TB.

[ladyj79]

@PNWjumper

With that being said, I noticed something really similar on another horse in the FEI classes this week at a horseshow. It was a thin plastic covering over the heels of the shoe that looked like a cross between a quarter bell boot and a shoe secure. I’m now on the hunt to find out if there’s some type of new boot. I would jump on that in a heartbeat! Love the shoe secures, but they’re a pain to put on and take off and also increase the wedging in the foot a bit. The horse I used them on didn’t seem to mind (though I removed them to ride in for that reason), but it worries me with my already-wedged TB.

Yes, we use these. No clue what they are called as we just pick them up at any tack store in Holland or Belgium but it appears they might be called “grab boots” here in the states,

This is pretty close to what we use, although not how he adjust them, if you can see in the pic, ours fit a little more completely over the back of the hoof/heel/shoe than the on this ad

http://www.bitofbritain.com/Grab-Boot-p/937045.htm

And they are a lot better than having to stop a class to find a shoe buried at the base of a jump.[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“large”,“data-attachmentid”:9775138}[/ATTACH]

[PNWjumper]

@ladyj79

Yes, we use these. No clue what they are called as we just pick them up at any tack store in Holland or Belgium but it appears they might be called “grab boots” here in the states,

This is pretty close to what we use, although not how he adjust them, if you can see in the pic, ours fit a little more completely over the back of the hoof/heel/shoe than the on this ad

http://www.bitofbritain.com/Grab-Boot-p/937045.htm

And they are a lot better than having to stop a class to find a shoe buried at the base of a jump.[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“large”,“data-attachmentid”:9775138}[/ATTACH]

I have many pairs of grab boots (also called quarter bells) and they definitely don’t help with shoes. The ones I saw looked different, though maybe they just had them flipped upside down to cover the back edges of the shoes? Is that what you do or are the boots you use actually designed to cover the shoe?

My routine before finding some really great leather boots (this is what I use now at the suggestion of the Coral Reef grooms after they finished laughing at my frankenstein boot routine: https://www.equusport.com/product/quarter-bell-boots/) was to put the grab boots on, use Tessa tape to tape them in place and then drop regular italian gum rubber bell boots over those. It worked most of the time, though I was still losing my guy’s RF shoe when the footing was particularly mucky. The leather boots are awesome, but expensive, and I would still love a more streamlined version.

[ladyj79]

They aren’t as big as quarter boots, and yes they do seem to be designed differently to the grab boots I posted in that they definitely seem designed to fit over the back of the shoe, which those bit of britain ones don’t seem to. Like, these don’t sit up around the coronet band, they sit more in the middle of the hoof in front, and then cupping the heel and shoe like, the back 1/3 of the hoof. They have a learning curve to get on correctly, but once you get it, it’s easy and was effective for us, and we had two who absolutely pulled fronts without. I’m trying to find what we buy, but the emmers website is pretty useless.

[PNWjumper]

@ladyj79

They aren’t as big as quarter boots, and yes they do seem to be designed differently to the grab boots I posted in that they definitely seem designed to fit over the back of the shoe, which those bit of britain ones don’t seem to.

Just knowing they exist is helpful, ladyj79! So thank you! I guess this will be my mission over the next several weeks - find out what they are and where I can get them! :lol:

[Dawdler]

Well she pulled another shoe yesterday :rolleyes: so I texted the farrier to let him know, and told him about the toe first landing/less pour in pad. He said he’ll add more when he comes out to tack the shoe back on and we’ll see if that makes the difference.

Kolsch - at the moment her backend doesn’t seem to be moving that differently. After she had been landing toe first for a while, her hock action became more oval than round, if that makes sense, but improved over the month that she was moving normally so that she was back to a circular hock action. It’s still circular right now, but I’ll bet that if she continues to land toe first, it will become more oval again.

PNWjumper - I’ve seen those advertised before! You like them? How long do they last before they need replacing? She’s on 24/7 turnout and they say that they’re not supposed to be used for that, but I emailed the company and was told the real concern was the studs wearing out. From your experience, do you think that’s a concern?

ladyj79 - If you remember/find what those boots are called, I would really like to know!! :yes:

[Larbear]

@Dawdler

Called out a second vet for a second opinion and she thought that her heels were too low and it was causing strain on her navicular/DDFT. Duct taping 4 degree wedges on her feet with a marked improvement in her movement seemed to confirm. Farrier came out and took her toes back as much as possible and put wedges on, but with little-to-no improvement for another few months.

Did the farrier bring the heels back as well? You mention heels were low but I’m willing to bet they were long but underrun. By not bringing the heels back, letting them get longer and then putting a wedge pad on will make the problem much worse. The heels will get crushed.

[Dawdler]

Larbear - Yes, you’re exactly right. Her heels do tend to run under, and yes, he brings them back.

ladyj79 - Are these the boots? http://shop.emmers.eu/en/bell-boots/1419-skalpers-premiere-rubber-paar.html

[PNWjumper]

@Dawdler

PNWjumper - I’ve seen those advertised before! You like them? How long do they last before they need replacing? She’s on 24/7 turnout and they say that they’re not supposed to be used for that, but I emailed the company and was told the real concern was the studs wearing out. From your experience, do you think that’s a concern?

I’ve had no issues with having them wear out. I have 2 pairs, one that I purchased 5 or 6 years ago and used for many years, and the other that I purchased this last year with the idea of using on a different horse. As long as they go on the same horse I don’t see how/where they would wear out. The bigger problem would be the wear and tear on the studs, but it’s easy to order extras. And with that being said, I still have the original studs with mine and they still work fine. Also, mine went on my horse who lived out 24/7. I only took them off to ride and then put them right back on.