Hi all!
My horse currently has a bit of runny bum, and I’m considering doing a powerpac (also because I’m concerned about encysted small strongyles). However, I had a couple questions about it
Can I do it at any time, as in halfway through this month?
Can it be done after his usual Nov/Dec rotation? (which is pyrantel pamoate)
If he isn’t wormy, will it have any negative effects?
Thanks so much!
WHY are you still doing rotational deworming? First thing I’d be doing is taking a fecal to my vet and pursuing the matter with them.
I’ve always been told rotational is the way to go, and I was planning on it, but I haven’t heard back from my vet
I’ve always been under the impression that rotational is safe to prevent resistance. I was talking to my vet about performing a fecal, but I haven’t heard back from him yet.
I also thought that encysted small strongyles don’t show up in fecals
@JB, you are much better at this than I. Care to chime in?
OP, rotating classes of wormers used to be the way to put off resistance, but nowadays… And yes, you do need to worm for strongyles.
His current schedule is:
Nov/Dec pyrantel pomoate
Jan/Feb oxibendazole
March/April ivermectin/fenbendazole (for some reason I have a single dose of both and I’m not sure which to give)
May/june pyrantel pomoate
aug/sept equimax (ivermectin with praziquantel)
there is a strong possibility I have this wrong for everything last March. I have the true schedule on my computer which isn’t with me right now
The old (and used to be correct) method of rotational deworming is, sadly, part of why we have the resistance issues we have now 
I also thought that encysted small strongyles don’t show up in fecals
Correct 
If a horse has regular clean/low FECs, then the chances of him having any significant EL colony is really small, so they are not a big concern in that situation. Even if the horse is a regular mod/high shedder, that doesn’t automatically mean he’s got any real EL colony at any given time
The bigger things to worry about are bots and tapeworms, also not showing on FECs
That looks like a typical old school, but still put out in catalogs and websites, rotational plan.
The problem is that fenbendazole, pyrantel pamoate, and oxibendazole have high, widespread resistance with strongyles So for that particular schedule, you’re really only getting 2 effective dewormers - the 2 that have ivermectin.
We also know now that 80-90% of horses take are of strongyles all by themselves due to strong immunity. And all but a tiny % of adults are immune to ascarids.
Immunity doesn’t develop for bots or tapeworms though, so all horses need to be treated for those at least once a year, and many parts of the US twice, depending on management.
This means that 80-90% of horses only need to be treated for strongyles, and then incidentally bots and tapeworms, twice a year.
And finally, by using moxidectin as one of those, you’re by default also treating for any encysted strongyles
The American Association of Equine Practioners has recommended strategic deworming instead of rotational programs since 2013.
https://aaep.org/sites/default/files…idelines_0.pdf
Experts agree that rotational programs are no longer effective for today’s parasite population. With rotations, we are experiencing widespread anthelmintic resistance while failing to effectively control parasite populations for horses with heavy parasite burdens.
Today, the recommended method is to use fecal egg counts to determine a horse’s shedding status, then deworm accordingly. All horses should be dewormed at least one time per year with an appropriate product to target things that can’t be quantified through a fecal egg count (bots, tapes, pinworms, etc). Additional dewormings are determined by the horse’s parasite burden and considerations such as climate and management. Overall, horses get dewormed much less with strategic deworming methods than they would in a rotational program.*
To answer your original question, if the horse has not been dewormed for encysted small strongyles in recent history, then it is not a bad idea. But I would consult with your vet first for a few reasons. First, if the horse does have a heavy parasite burden, you may want to deworm with something that targets less species several weeks prior to deworming for encysted small strongyles, so as to prevent a massive die-off of other parasites present. Also, the best time to deworm for encysted strongyles depends on your climate, which your vet is more familiar with than strangers on the internet.
If the horse doesn’t have any encysted small strongyles, a PowerPac isn’t going to be harmful per se. However, there’s plenty of reasons not to do it if it’s not warranted. Unnecessary use of anthelmintics contributes to resistance problems; resistance can develop quickly on a farm when there is regular overuse of dewormers. Dewormer is not without risk to the animal; you are pumping chemicals into the horse for 5 days straight. While they generally safe, horses can react differently.
(*with the exception of foals and yearlings, for which a more intensive “rotation” is still recommended)
Thank you so much for the reply! I’m excited to take a closer look at the website and talk to my vet about a fecal and where to go from there
Thank you so much for the reply! Is it okay if we continue the conversation on messenger?
I actually have another question if that’s okay, you had said that horses should get a dewormer at least once a year that covers all things that don’t show up in a fecal. What is the best thing to give?
In my area, for most horses, it is recommended to use Equimax - 1.87% Ivermectin and 14.03% Praziquantel once/year and Quest Plus - 2% moxidectin and 12.5% praziquantel once/year…usually spring/fall.
But remember, targeted deworming also takes into consideration your horses’ deworming needs based on environmental factors. It is worth having a fecal test run and then dosing appropriately, and then setting the schedule based on those findings.
you bet!
Equimax and Quest Plus.
Equimax is ivermectin + praziquantel, and QP is moxidectin + prazi.
The prazi is for tapeworms.
Ivermectin and moxidectin both effectively kill strongyles and bots. Moxidectin also kills encysted strongyles.
There is some resistance of pinworms to these now, but that’s something to be addressed if it’s a problem for your farm specifically, not something I’d worry about as a matter of course.
Those are the things you won’t find in a FEC.
Ideally, QP in the Spring, after temps are reliable above 45* (when strongyle eggs start to hatch into infective larva), and Equimax in the Fall, either after a hard freeze if you get one, or about 6 months after the Spring deworming, whichever comes later.
I will always recommend against Zimecterin Gold (also ivermectin + praziquantel) because of blistering issues. If you do a search here, with Zimecterin Gold as a subject search, you’ll find long threads on it.
Thank you @JB and others who helped out… my brain was too scrambled to give the OP much of an answer!
The weather here is so unpredictable, it 60 today and it was 12 two days ago. I will most likely do the equimax now, and the QP in April when it warms up. Does that seem about right?
Is the Equimax a good idea now?
I would love to run a fecal, but as Im still 16 im fighting with my mom about doing it. She’s thinking it’s uneccesary, so I might just have to take a guess and hope it works
Well, a fecal at my clinic only costs $25. But yes if you haven’t given the November/December dewormer yet anyway, I think I would give Equimax now.
Okay thank you! I’ll do it tonight!!
I’m trying to convince my mom to do it. It’s not a money issue, I think a fecal for me would be $30, but it’s the “why would we take the time if he looks and acts fine.” Uhg…
@JB and @S1969 I just wanted to check that I have this correct, I’m only deworming twice a year as long as his fecal/environment doesn’t say otherwise?
That is what we do…although we have 6 months of freezing weather, which does change things.
I am going to start doing my own fecals this year (well, Jan or Feb 2019): we had the vet do them 2014-2016 and it seemed which horses were high shedders remained consistent, so we didn’t continue to do them to the entire herd. Our vet said that horses with inconsistent/inappropriate deworming earlier in life, tend to be more problematic to deworm going forward (require more deworming).
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