PPE advice needed

[Bristol_Bay]

I’m trying to sell my lovely horse. His one issue is his ground manners. He doesn’t like to be groomed or blanketed. Grooming in cross ties, blanketing with a halter on and he’s fine, just makes grumpy faces. He can be nippy, but we all know that about him and honestly, it’s not an issue. Everyone in the barn has ridden him and loves him.

Potential buyers know all of this and are very excited about him anyway, as he’s pretty bombproof, no prep at shows, always places, etc.

Rather than scope him for ulcers, my vet treated him for a month with omeprazole about a year ago with no change.

The buyers want to do a scope before doing a PPE during a one week trial. (They are local and well-known to my trainer.)

I’m uncomfortable with the idea of sedation and scoping prior to them doing a soundness exam. It seems crazy to me. If his behavior is not a concern for them, then they can buy the horse and then scope.

I do really need to sell. Should I just go along with the plan?

[luvmyhackney]

@Bristol_Bay

I’m uncomfortable with the idea of sedation and scoping prior to them doing a soundness exam

I would be uncomfortable with that as well. Could you suggest just using omeprazole for the week during the trial? If it helps great and if not his behavior is as expected.

I don’t send my horses out for any trial so I think you are being more than gracious giving them a week.

[Bristol_Bay]

I think that was mentioned in her conversation with them, so I’ll bring it up to my trainer so suggest that.

[CBoylen]

That seems like a pretty clear indication that they aren’t going to buy it if it has ulcers. Otherwise they would prioritize the prepurchase and scope after (and after getting their insurance?). Why would you spend your money to scope a horse that might not end up as yours? Unless you don’t want to waste the prepurchase money because the scope is your deal breaker.
I don’t know how I would feel about that as a seller. I guess I would converse with my own vet.

[Bristol_Bay]

So it does make sense to you if ulcers were the dealbreaker, and not the grumpiness?

I’m unfamiliar with treatment for ulcers aside from the round of omeprazole.

[CBoylen]

No, but it’s a rare buyer that makes any sense.

[Sarah616]

I would wonder if the horse has ulcers, and they do want to buy it, if they will try to get the price of the ulcer medication taken off the purchase price of the horse. I’ve definitely seen that before, although with injections, not scope/ulcer meds.
The usual regime that we have done in the past for ulcers has some variation of Sucralfate and Omeprazole used together. If you go the 28 day Gastrogard course, that can feel expensive, but Sucralfate isn’t expensive and you can get compounded omeprazole as well

[Weezer]

I think that if you don’t agree with the scoping, the thought might be that you’re afraid of what they might find. Word gets out, and people might think there’s something wrong with the horse.

Oh the other hand, if he’s only ever grumpy for grooming and blanketing, and that grumpiness is consistent in those situations, I think it’s a reach to link it to ulcers. I have a boarder who is the same. After several months of getting treats only when she’s being blanketed, she’s now fine to blanket. And I can only brush her when she’s eating grain. Otherwise, she’s a cow about it.

[Libby2563]

Another possibility is that they’re willing to buy the horse if he DOES have ulcers that they think could be causing the behavior, but they don’t want to buy a horse whose sharkiness may have some other, undiagnosed, and possibly harder to treat cause like KS, Lyme, EPM, neck pain, etc. I wonder if they’ve been down that road before.

Would the scope be while he’s in their care for the trial? I’d be worried about sending even a seasoned show horse out on trial in a new place and immediately subjecting him to the stress of fasting and being scoped.

[Peggy]

How you (and they) proceed depends somewhat on whether their concern is not wanting a horse with ulcers at all, looking to get something off the price to treat for ulcers if he has them, or something else.

If they don’t want the ulcers at all, they’re going to want to scope before buying. Scoping is cheaper than a PPE with radiographs (or a course of even generic omeprazole for that matter) so I kind of get why they’d want to do the cheaper, deal-breaker thing first. Maybe scope on their dime before he leaves your care and custody, then do the trial.

If they’re concerned about the cost, but are OK with the ulcers, I’d suggest trial and PPE, then buy if OK and then scope, possibly with an agreement in place that gives them money back to cover all or part of the treatment.

Whatever you do, get a contract, but I probably don’t have to tell the OP that.

At least some of the insurance companies are excluding ulcer treatment, or at least omeprazole, for the first few months of a new policy, so getting insurance to cover it may or may not be an issue.

On scoping > just treating
We were fairly convinced my horse had ulcers at the end of the last show. Decided to scope bc it was cheaper than treating and the omeprazole isn’t necessarily all that great for them (if you need it you need it but otherwise…). LSS no ulcers, nothing in abdominal ultrasound, normal bloodwork. Vet suggested a tapering dose of banamine which we did. Seemed to help. Horse now back to normal. Total cost of visit to clinic was $779. As always, YMMV.

[NaturallyHappy]

You have a lot of great advice here. I’m with @luvmyhackney, I don’t send horses on trial but one can come and ride here for a week. Since they are local, maybe you could do that. That may give you an opportunity to discuss the scope, too.

[CHT]

Why would they buy and then scope, rather than scope before buying so they potentially know what they are dealing with? Prioritizing the scope over the PPE does seem odd, but may just be based on their prior experience. Maybe they are more comfortable dealing with soundness maintenance rather than GI issues? You could have them spell out their deal breakers in a Bill of Sale, and make sure that any findings that end the deal are released to you.

I have had two horses scoped (no ulcers) and it doesn’t seem like that big a deal if able to be done locally.

[2tempe]

no major advice here, but some horses just don’t like grooming. Some don’t like getting blankets on. I own one of the latter. He will try to nip if you are messing with the chest buckles. We solved that part of problem by just leaving them buckled and putting blanket over his head. He doesn’t kick at leg straps but will fidget a bit.
I get your worry re scoping during the trial period. IF it is a deal breaker, the only thing I could get comfortable would be having it done by my vet, at my barn and at their expense.

[Bristol_Bay]

One thing I’ve learned about this process is that everything is an emergency. They want the horse today before they can even arrange a PPE. I’m trying to slow things down. I mean, there’s no one else trying him at the moment.

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

This is when you ask for a deposit. If they want the horse and they’re doing all this fuss… the paid trial fee is “x” for the week or 7-10 days. It can be applied to purchase price if they buy, but it’s non-refundable if they decide to pass. If they want to scope and poke and prod… it’s on their dime. Essentially with all this fuss and sedation, they are taking the horse off the market. There’s a cost to that. It will also thin out the “tirekickers” and “free interim horse” BS that seems to be rampant lately.

[Pennywell_Bay]

Most likely they are weighing the grump factor being “him” vs ulcers. I have a friend with a lovely horse under saddle that exhibits grump behavior (pin ears, bites at cross ties) . No one has asked for a scope, as she says “that’s him”. No one ha wanted to deal with the behavior, a few people have tried him, one being another friend of mine and she wouldn’t say the behavior bothered her to the seller. She did tell me no way she wants to deal with it. Take it for what’s it’s worth.

Not sure what the aimed market is, a lot of ammies don’t want to walk into a grump on cross ties.

Scoping really isn’t that big a deal, my vet does about 6 a week. I guess you can pre treat and see what it does but I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the buyer to want to know. I think it’s reasonable (if this one passes) to have it done yourself and you can say definitively “it’s him not ulcers”.

[Alterrain]

Eh I don’t think it’s so weird. I had one that I did an EKG before the PPE (and bought him) and another that I did an MRI instead of a PPE (bought him too). Remember the PPE exists solely to 1) make the buyer as comfortable as possible with the purchase, and 2) to give them a baseline. Chances are that they are not tirekickers if they are investing in any of these procedures, but rather they have had experiences before that have made them realize what they can and cannot live with.

and hey, even if they pass, you got a recent scope for free.

[SpicyPRE]

I am curious when the PPE is to be done in relation to the trial. I would only consider a trial AFTER a PPE. That way everyone knows the health and soundness state of the horse. A local well known trainer would request a trial and ride the crap out of the horse so that it was sore for the PPE.

[Bristol_Bay]

Yikes, that sounds shady. I understand totally wanting to make sure the horse suits your needs before spending money on a PPE. That’s what I have done, except with the ex-race horse I impulse bought and who is the best horse I’ve ever had.

I haven’t had an update today, but I’ve said that I want them to schedule their vet first. A PPE is a long appointment so their vet may not be available within a week’s trial if they want to pick him up tomorrow.

The thing I want to avoid is hauling out for a trial knowing he’s a grump and then the buyers shipping him back because he’s a grump. He really shows no other symptoms of ulcers.

This is the reason why people send their horses away to a sales barn to be sold. It’s nerve wracking.

[punchy]

It would make me nervous because of the 12-hour fasting period. The whole scoping experience I think is pretty stressful to a horse, especially one who will already be stressed in a new environment.