PPE Fail - Would you keep looking?

[Haliburton]

Hello all

Looking for opinions on a mare I did a PPE on. Horse in question is a 5 yr old OTTB that has sat barefoot in a field for a year, retired last season. Dirt cheap, and my intention is to turn her into a little jumper mare.

Vet thinks bi-laterally lame in front (suspected foot sore in both front feet). No x-rays or radiographs because vet said it wasn’t worth the $$ investigating as he strongly recommended not purchasing the horse. Vet said cheap option would be to put shoes on her and he will come back to see if that helps, or if money is no object to do blocking/radiographs to decipher where the lameness is. She was also extremely reactive to the hoof tester. Otherwise legs were clean, no heat in legs & hooves, no swelling, no pressure, no bumps, etc. Flexions were good and did not aggravate the lameness. And she moves beautifully on grass/arena/soft footing (no lameness).

She’s such a lovely mare, that my heart says possible stone bruises and thin soles and poor farrier work makes her very ouchy on the driveway. But my brain says listen to the vet, assume there is something going on with her feet and keep looking for a sound horse.

Here’s a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZvIChwoFV8. What we (me & vet) saw was the occasional little head bob that you can see every couple strides or so in the video.

~sigh~ I know the answer is to keep searching, but I just love her to pieces. Any input is appreciated :o

[Madison]

I would not purchase a horse with existing bilateral lameness, particularly when not even in work, as work will not help that. If your heart just won’t let go, you can always pursue the options the vet threw out, but you have to bear in mind that you could be throwing good money after bad, and that unless the mare is in work you will not have any way to know if she will hold up to it even if you get her pasture sound. I passed on one this summer that had an issue on the PPE, and it broke my heart to say no, but my trainer summed it up best – better to be disappointed now than to be sorry later!!

[Limerick]

I would put shoes on her and have him check her in a few weeks. I would also pack her feet with Magic Cushion for a few days and help her feel better before getting her shod and then after too.

I am quite sure most horses and ponies would be ouchy barefoot on that driveway. She is very pretty and deserves some TLC!

[BostonHJ]

Why don’t you ask owners to put on shoes/see if they can get her sound? Presumably they have a more vested interest in doing so. That said, definitely pull blood if you re-vet.

[Training_Cupid]

My OTTB was 3/5 lame on the hind after being repeatedly trotted down a hard driveway. He was 3 years old and 2 weeks out from his last race. He is fine now - wears regular steel shoes on the front only. A few thoughts/questions:

1. Is the seller open to a trial period? Seems to be a controversial topic here on COTH but my seller offered it w/o me asking.

2. Is this your regular vet? Is he/she good with diagnosing lameness? A second opinion could be useful, or more in-depth diagnosis with this vet.

3. Is the horse free/cheap? Would you have a contingency plan if she doesn’t work out for the type of work you want to do?

4. Do you know the seller and the horse’s history? When she raced were there any gaps?

I wouldn’t say no straight off based on what I saw in the video. A good temperament counts for a lot (depending on your goals), and if you’re working in a budget you just need to prioritize what’s most important. I would go see some other horses and if you just can’t stop thinking about her she may just be the one. Good luck with the decision!

[Melissa.Van_Doren]

If I pulled the shoes off my perfectly sound TB and jogged him down a gravel driveway (or any hard surface), he’d look a lot more lame than that mare. Ditto, if he had been living barefoot in a field for a year. He just needs shoes.

I also recommend putting shoes on her (if owners are willing) and checking again in a few weeks. And I’d make the appointment with a different vet. To recommend against (or for) buying a horse is not what any vet should do during a PPE.

[fordtraktor]

a horse shouldn’t be lame after a year in turnout. a few weeks OTT is one thing, a year is a problem. It also shouldn’t hoof test sore. I am sure there are plenty of people with horses that have tender feet that are OK but it is another thing to buy one not knowing. I’d pass unless I did a very comprehensive PPE and even then it would be pretty risky My 21 year old with laminitis doesn’t hoof test sore, much less “extremely reactive.” it’s a big red flag.

[Jleegriffith]

^ I disagree with that when it comes to TB feet. I just went and bought 3 tb’s out of the field who had been turned out barefoot for a year if not more (sound but slow on breeder’s farm) and each one of them was what I would consider quite sore on their feet. I could run my hands down all legs and tell they were cold and tight. I am super experienced with lameness and you can often see the difference in how a foot sore horse protects themselves. It can make their whole body hurt when their feet hurt.

Example-
sept 3- no shoe on the farm and some noticeable lame steps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M0TsiHz7Ps

today (shoes on about a week)- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qJ6cRJYYZw

Tb’s will often be pretty weak coming out of the field due to no muscle. I would put shoes on and wait a week.

[enjoytheride]

I would not put on shoes. The horse doesn’t belong to you and it has been doing nothing but sitting in a field. There are just too many horses out there to take a chance on one that is lame. You can risk slapping shoes on and packing the feet but if you have to do that just to get it to jog sound for 30 feet what are you going to have to do when it’s being ridden and jumped?

If ANY THING I would see the horse jogged in an arena.

[AdrenalineJunky]

I would be curious to have more information on WHY the horse is a bit off in the fronts. Thin soles? Bruise? Do both heels grow evenly? Thin toe? Navicular?

My mare has thin soles, and does not grow one of her heels, so she bruises very easily. I love her to death and she’s an awesome horse but man the money I spend on shoes, pads, hoof oils/hardeners, etc. to keep her sound…

If this horse already has questionable feet, I wouldn’t pursue it any further. Some of them end up taking so much maintenance, even if putting shoes on helps for now, it might not forever. I go out of my way to buy them with good feet now, and pass on the ones that are already nqr in their hooves. Save yourself the time, energy, and money and go find something with good hooves.

[ynl063w]

[QUOTE=enjoytheride;8320471]
I would not put on shoes. The horse doesn’t belong to you and it has been doing nothing but sitting in a field. There are just too many horses out there to take a chance on one that is lame. You can risk slapping shoes on and packing the feet but if you have to do that just to get it to jog sound for 30 feet what are you going to have to do when it’s being ridden and jumped?[/QUOTE]

I agree. I wouldn’t pay out of my pocket to put shoes on a lame horse that I don’t own in the hopes that it will make it sound enough that I can feel all warm and fuzzy about buying it. And I would never ask the current owners to put shoes on a horse that they are selling “dirt cheap”, and expect them to hold the horse for me for a few weeks so my vet can come back and re-evaluate it.

Go find another horse. If you fell in love so quickly with a horse that is lame, there’s got to be at least one sound horse out there that you will fall in love with to an equal extent.

[Jleegriffith]

I wouldn’t expect you to pay for the shoes but I would ask the seller. The ground has been super duper hard this year and TB feet have suffered. The three that I bought have excellent feet in terms of quality hoof wall since they have lived out for a year or so but they had nubs…just nothing there. We put aluminum shoes on for first time. All had immediate improvement. The horse in that video above literally had taken all the toe off one foot so he moves a bit uneven and the foot looks clubby. It’s not but there is just no toe at all. I guess I look at it like it’s fixable. It’s not really that easy to find cheap horses these days so I personally don’t mind fixing up some feet but I have to feel comfortable knowing it’s just the feet. Honestly, why not do the jogging on the soft ground? We have done flexions and jogging in my ring vs the driveway to avoid the rocks/hard ground when necessary.

[Melissa.Van_Doren]

jlee… Which post did you mean to disagree with? I’m saying the same thing you are.

[AKB]

If you really like the horse, I would get the x rays. If those are normal, I would put regular shoes on. If the horse is totally sound in shoes, I would call the vet back to complete the prepurchase exam. The horse is pretty lame right now. I am not sure that he problem is just foot soreness from being barefoot.

[HealingHeart]

Agree, that gravel road was not the best to trot a barefoot horse. She is nice…, do a little more to consider her. I like her

[QUOTE=Limerick;8320392]
I would put shoes on her and have him check her in a few weeks. I would also pack her feet with Magic Cushion for a few days and help her feel better before getting her shod and then after too.

I am quite sure most horses and ponies would be ouchy barefoot on that driveway. She is very pretty and deserves some TLC![/QUOTE]

[ynl063w]

[QUOTE=Melissa.Van Doren;8320515]
jlee… Which post did you mean to disagree with? I’m saying the same thing you are. :)[/QUOTE]

I’m guessing that she’s disagreeing with my post re: who should pay for the shoes. And since Jleegriffith clearly has tons more experience in this area than I have, I would take her advice over mine!

[fourfillies]

She is lovely, I can see why you don’t want to walk away. But, she is quite unsound. Keep looking.

[hb]

Remember, when doing a PPE your goal should not be to diagnose what is wrong with a horse, simply to see if the horse is sound enough for your purposes.

If the seller wants to sell that horse, they need to put shoes on her, or block her feet, or do whatever it takes to get her sound. Or just keep waiting for an uneducated person to buy her anyway.

You don’t need to buy someone else’s problem, you don’t need to investigate and diagnose someone else’s horse!

[IvyHall]

Normally I would say keep looking. But I watched her video and I quite like her.

What it probably comes down to, is do you have money to burn? If not, pass. If so keep investigating this.

My horse recently had a lameness eval at top clinic and was sound when lunged and ridden on good footing. He showed some mild bilateral lameness in front on pavement. Blocked his feet and he came sound. Xrays showed nothing. Turns out all he needed was a change in shoeing.

They are all a gamble, even the ones who pass the vetting with flying colors. Good luck to you and this lovely mare.

[vxf111]

I would not blame you for asking the owners to shoe her and then coming back to try her again after that. What do you have to lose? If they say no, they say no. If she is then sound, I would x-ray the feet and if the films look good and the price is right-- I might go for it.