PPEs for the 4 Figure Horse

[Pico_Banana]

I am considering buying a guest/husband horse. Requirements are SAFE and sturdy enough to pack around someone who weighs about 225 lbs. I’ve seen a few that meet my needs and hope to go see some soon. The ones I have in mind are all mid-4 figures.

What kind of PPE do people do for a horse at this price range? I am not interested in forgoing one altogether, but also am not going to x-ray everything. It seems like everything is outside of the geographical reach of my own vet, so will be doing it remotely with someone I don’t know.

[Xanthoria]

I don’t think about the PPE as a percentage of the purchase price at all, but rather i tally up the cost to maintain a horse that’s unrideable over the course of years or decades. That’s the actual number you should be considering.

Can you afford to retire this horse for x years if they come up with kissing spines (or other show stopper) next week? Next year? In 2 years?
Do you own land so you’re relieved of the boarding costs?
Can you afford another horse that is rideable if this one breaks down?

225# (plus tack on top) is not a small load, and the horse you’ll get will need a strong back. I don’t see any advantage to scrimping on a PPE here.

To be sure the PPE will only tell you what can be seen today, but if what can be seen today is going to create a problem soon, it’s worth knowing.

[CBoylen]

Eyes, wind, flexions. Pointed questions. You’d be surprised how many things are suddenly remembered in the presence of a vet. Also a great chance to view behavior. I’ve seen some pass the exam but fail the purchase so to speak as the vet mutters are you sure about this one?

[beau159]

@Pico_Banana

I am considering buying a guest/husband horse. Requirements are SAFE and sturdy enough to pack around someone who weighs about 225 lbs. I’ve seen a few that meet my needs and hope to go see some soon. The ones I have in mind are all mid-4 figures.

What kind of PPE do people do for a horse at this price range? I am not interested in forgoing one altogether, but also am not going to x-ray everything. It seems like everything is outside of the geographical reach of my own vet, so will be doing it remotely with someone I don’t know.

That’s entirely up to you. Your money. You decide.

Someone out there might buy a horse for $3,000 and spend $1,000 on a PPE because they can’t afford the horse if it has serious issues. Another person might buy a $15,000 sight unseen with no PPE, because they can afford it if horse has a problem and they’ll just buy another one.

Everyone’s pocketbook is different and you do what you are comfortable with, and what’s important to you.

For myself, I would xray front feet and hocks for sure. (although does depend on the age of the horse)
And the rest would depend on what I see on movement, and what the vet picks up.

[TheJenners]

Generally the rule of thumb used to be 10 percent of the purchase price for something you wanted to hold up and be competitive, back when barn calls were $35. Now I think 10-20 percent is just barely safe for a pleasure horse…

Also depends on age, location, and how much you know the vet. If you know your vet, they can sidebar you before going too far about what they see and their opinion on proceeding. If it’s a new vet because it’s a different area, maybe not because there isn’t a relationship with the vet. Around here a big’un like that won’t be mid-4s and broke, no chance. Additionally a standard does-it-have-two-eyes-and-do-they-work (and some flexions sure) PPE is going to be minimum $300ish. If I lived in a place where I could score a big broke animal for mid-4s, I’d be happy to do more on the PPE because the cost would probably be less and I could afford some pictures and etceteras.

I don’t really buy into the whole thought behind paying more for a PPE because you are paying to avoid long term maintenance costs etc etc. Lets face it, the horse could break its leg in the field the second week you have it, puncture a joint rolling on a stick, get EPM, etc. A PPE is a snapshot of the horse on that day, at that point in time. They are horses and horses rarely if ever get the memo that we want them to not damage themselves and cost us a gazillion dollars. I’m quite stuck with a nice horse who would have passed a PPE (and in fact did with flying colors two years after I bought him as a 2yo when I felt a workup would show future suitability now that he was started under saddle) but is injury-prone and high-maintenance to the point that I can’t sell him because of all the disclosures at this point and still feel good about myself, and most of the time can’t ride him because of some new injury, and costs the most in terms of regular maintenance like injections and four shoes so I can feel good about riding him when I do get to ride him. He’s 13 and gorgeous and it’s very depressing.

[lenapesadie]

When I “adopted” a freebie horse, I had the vet come and look him over. We looked at his eyes and teeth. Listened to his heart and lungs. Did a mini neuro eval. General look see at the horse in general.

I should have done at least podiatry / lateral views of his hooves, and will do those for sure on any future horse, and maybe more hoof views depending on what the laterals and the rest of the exam show. For a horse intended for riding, I guess I’d do flexions first to see if there was any significant findings and then do x rays or not based on flexion results.

[MorganMaresVT]

• Overall “wellness exam” and basic flexions

• Metabolic blood panel- a lightly ridden/semi-retired horse that isn’t going to get much exercise can’t come to the farm already bordering on IR/EMS.

• Hoof x-rays for a baseline

[joiedevie99]

I board, so I try to avoid supporting retirees. I’d do a standard wellness exam: eyes, heart, lungs, palpate body; a basic lameness exam: trot on hard and soft ground, straight line and circle, flexions; a basic neurological exam: tail pull, small circle, cross legs, etc.; and bloodwork: Lyme, EPM, IR, Coggins. I’d skip x-rays/ultrasounds unless something flexes positive. I’d base my decision of whether to run a drug screen on how much I trusted the seller.

[GraceLikeRain]

A full hands on exam, flexions, blood draw, hocks, stifles, feet, and Pasterns are my baseline. Last time I passed on a horse with stunning flexions in full work (but quite green) due to an odd single X-ray. Seller berated me, vet said he could go either way. Horse retired a year later due to that joint. X-rays are just a snapshot in time but I want the baselines and do make an informed decision about my risk tolerance for what could be brewing in that joint.

[outerbanks77]

If you do get xrays, arrange for your regular vet to view them. Let the seller and PPE vet know ahead of time that you’ll want your vet to review the xrays. For me, it would probably depend on the horse’s age, current level of work, etc. Like if a horse is 15 and has been steadily doing the level of work you want and is vetting out sound, I probably wouldn’t bother with lots of xrays. But if it’s a young horse or one a 10 year old that has been sitting in pasture, I’d probably look for potential issues a little harder. The horse’s breed and any potential health issues associated with that should also be considered (like if you’re looking for draft crosses, EPSM/PSSM could be a concern etc.), or testing for lyme if that’s an issue in the area the horse is from.

[GreyDes]

My husband & I bought a horse very similar to your specs for him a few years ago. The horse was in current work doing what we wanted (low key trail riding).

I did a PPE along the lines of what @joiedevie99 did. I did not do the bloodwork, but it’s an excellent idea. I told the vet we would not x-ray and to stop the PPE if anything came up that would lead them to recommend x-rays.

For me, it was balancing the cost and the risk. I agree with the other posters that it’s all about your comfort level.

[trubandloki]

@MorganMaresVT

• Overall “wellness exam” and basic flexions

• Metabolic blood panel- a lightly ridden/semi-retired horse that isn’t going to get much exercise can’t come to the farm already bordering on IR/EMS.

• Hoof x-rays for a baseline

This is what I would do.

I look at the PPE as not just an exam to know what I am buying but also a way to have a good baseline for the horse so we can have the information in the future if needed. Getting some basic X-rays might allow you to know that there are no changes, what they are seeing is the same as it always has been, at some point in the future.

[fordtraktor]

I bought one in this range last year to be my dressage horse (unstarted 6 yo). I spent about $3k on the PPE, X-rayed everything (extra pricey because horse was in Wellington). I wanted to know as a baseline, sure, but more so that if I was going to resale the horse down the road, there wouldn’t be any unpleasant surprises on the radiographs.

I’ve skipped the X rays too often on a mid-4 figure horse, then ended up with a horse I had to sell for $1 to a low-level home because something turned up later that made the horse virtually un-sellable for decent money. Doing whatever I can to avoid going down that road again! I don’t regret a penny spent ruling out those problems!

It’s all a matter of risk tolerance, but after a string of bad luck…I do a full PPE. I’ve had some really nice horses I’ve had to basically give away, and who are out there doing low level jobs just fine (and soundly!) They weren’t holding up to the levels I wanted to do, but nice horses with a definite place for the right person.

[SBrentnall]

I do flexions, a full exam, and x-rays regardless of purchase price. It’s not about the cost of buying, it’s about the cost of maintaining. And at the very least, I have a baseline set of data in case something happens in the future.

[173north]

@MorganMaresVT

• Overall “wellness exam” and basic flexions
• Metabolic blood panel- a lightly ridden/semi-retired horse that isn’t going to get much exercise can’t come to the farm already bordering on IR/EMS.
• Hoof x-rays for a baseline

Same here.

[blue_heron]

I’ll be following this closely. The last time I bought a horse in the four figures, a vet came out, looked at it, listened to its heart and lungs and watched it trot around in a circle, and said it looked healthy enough to him. It immediately went on the trailer and back to mine.

[Risuena]

I was shopping in the low- mid-four figures when I bought my horse several years ago and my vet knew I didn’t have a list of “must x-ray” areas so we chose based on exam findings. He’s an excellent diagnostician, and for one hose I vetted (and did not buy) I joke that he hadn’t even shut the truck door when he said “we need to x-ray that stifle”

Conformation also plays a role in what I’d want more info on. Small feet or short upright pasterns? Maybe those need x-rays. Straight behind? Maybe some views of the hocks.

For me, it’s trickier not knowing the vet doing the PPE; ideally your vet could work with the other vet and/or vouch for them. And as others have said, it’s all about how risk-adverse you are; more information is never a bad thing. But I was comfortable doing “targeted” imaging based on the opinion of my vet and felt that it balanced the risk/$$ well for me.

[kaya842]

I bought a mare in the mid four range a few months ago and did no PPE. I skipped it as she has been doing the job I want to do with her for the past two years and she is older so will definitely have things show up if we went looking but who is to say if those things would be relevant to her current or future soundness or not. I did do a PPE on the horse I bought prior to that one, as I knew it had a slab knee that was repaired. I was only concerned with getting updated images and my lameness specialists opinion on that knee vs looking for other things.

[CindyCRNA]

This! Flexions, questions. Boom, done. A PPE isn’t the be all to end all. You are just looking for gross issues unless you want to x-ray the horse and ultrasound the legs up and down and even then you can miss stuff.

[Bonnie2]

Eyes, heart, lungs. If it is blind or has a whopping heart murmur you need to know. Basic flexions, but don’t worry about mild positives. If this horse is not for resale, I wouldn’t do X-rays. The husband horse types have probably been around long enough you will find something on the X-rays. If it is currently sound enough, doing the same level of work you will ask of him, for me that is an acceptable amount of risk. Do draw blood for a drug test. You would be amazed how sellers’ memories improve when you pull out a blood tube! Freeze the blood and run it only if there is an issue with the horse. Best of luck!