Those of you who do groundwork (especially folks who use Tom Dorrance/Ray Hunt methodology), I’m wondering if you have a ‘checklist’ of what you expect a horse to do on the ground before you get on. I have a newish horse that I’m re-starting and I know the gist of what he should be able to do before I get back on (he’s been under saddle for years, but has some holes in his training) but I wonder if I’m being too much of a perfectionist (you can also read this as ‘too much of a chicken’) in wanting every step to be soft. So, what do you make sure your horse can do on the ground and how well do you want him to do it before you get on? Thanks!
Having been to a Tom Dorrance clinic in person, and a few Ray Hunt demos (plus a Buck Brannaman clinic plus watching his video), I do not believe any of those expected things to be ‘perfect’ before riding. The impression I have gotten from all three, is just to establish a shared vocabulary of body language from the human, that the horse will understand and respond to.
So, if I were in your shoes, and were starting a horse (or restarting), I would make sure the horse knows when to move, and to stop. I would want the horse to be willing to move forehand and haunches. I also definitely would be sure voice cues for Whoa! (emphatic emergency stop) and an ‘easy now, whooooaaa, slowly now’ calming cue were installed.
I certainly would not overdo the backing up or moving away stuff though. Sadly, I have seen too many horses started by wannabe Natural Horsemanship people, that have totally lost their ability and willingness to go forward, or worse yet, have lost their ability to STAND STILL when a human approaches instead of moving away automatically and in a great fearful hurry.
I would be sure the horse has worn tack before the day I plan to ride. Ideally, if another person is around - and only if this is a horse that has never been ridden at all - I would want that second person to lead the horse with me on it for a minute or two before turning the horse loose to my guidance from above.
Thanks, sdlbredfan! The horse in question has been ridden lots and worn tack regularly, it’s just when I try to do the beginning stuff listed in True Horsemanship, my horse kinda sucks at it. That is, he doesn’t follow a feel at all, mostly just braces against it. He doesn’t lower his head well, as he has some issues about his head. Bridling and haltering are fine, but he doesn’t want your hand to be at his poll longer than it takes to put a halter and/or bridle on. He also doesn’t follow the feel when you do the leading exercise where you are on the opposite side of him (sorry - can’t recall what it’s called or even if it has a name) and you ask him to turn towards the rope. It just got me thinking about how many basics I need to have down before I go back to riding. I want to fill in the holes, but I don’t want to be years away from riding trying to be perfect. 
He’s already saddle broke - just likes to buck when he thinks his rider is being too bossy or isn’t aggressive enough with him. I’d like a soft horse so I’m trying to start him over. Thanks again for our comments!
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It is quite possible that the way you are trying to work with him is just so different from what he knows, that he does not know sure what you want. Do you know anything about how he was ridden before? It may be a case of you having to figure out what he does understand first, and ride or work with him in the way he knows, then gradually introduce what seems to be new concepts?
Edited to add, and this is not meant as a criticism,but rather a fact-finding question, how good is your own ‘feel’? Is this new to you too? As I understand it, the ‘feel’ thing is an ongoing conversation between you and the horse, but the absolutely most important thing is for the human to be really quick to RECOGNIZE the horse’s response and IMMEDIATELY! release pressure or cue.
In the Dorrance way (and those who follow his tradition), it is the release that teaches, not the cue. If the human is not rewarding the try fast enough, no progress is going to happen.
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I think it’s all of the above! He was ridden very traditionally before. No groundwork. Lunged with a chain on his nose. No feel on the lead at all. Ridden with spurs, shank bit etc. Nothing abusive at all - he was very well loved, but nothing at all like what I’m trying to offer him. I KNOW that my timing and feel aren’t perfect, though I am getting better but I know when it’s both of us learning it complicates things. Though there are some NH trainers in my area, I haven’t found anyone that I feel comfortable sending him to, so we’re muddling through with weekly lessons, lots of watching videos and reading. I’ve used NH with other horses, but haven’t had one that’s quite as much of a puzzle as this guy. He’s one of those horses that just shuts down in training - I think he was taught to not ask questions - and then he bottles it up until one day he just can’t take it anymore.
It seems EVERYTHING on the ground is a new concept. Would you continue riding a horse who couldn’t lead up real well, lower his head, flex? Or would you stop and just do groundwork until these things are satisfactory? This is where I’m getting hung up. I think a trainer with better feel and timing could have him going again in 30 days, but as a bumbling amateur I can’t say the same for me.
Thanks so much for your thoughts!
For me, I like to know that the horse will STOP when I ask, and that the steering is functional. (Pretty basic stuff.)
Softness takes a lot of time. Not to mention, you can sometimes help the horse more by also using your leg and seat cues … not just the reins.
And I agree 100% with the above that the RELEASE of the cue is so important to teach your horse what the correct response is.
He also doesn’t follow the feel when you do the leading exercise where you are on the opposite side of him (sorry - can’t recall what it’s called or even if it has a name) and you ask him to turn towards the rope.
With this, I don’t know that I would be riding him yet because that falls under the category of “steering”. He needs to learn to follow his nose.
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It’s pretty simple, really. He needs to be desensitized to noise and movement on both sides, above his head, and on the ground. He must stand still when touched all over by noisy moving things. Now you know you have a horse that won’t spook spin and bolt when something unexpected shows up nearby.
He needs to give his face and disengage his hindquarters. Now you can stop him if you need to.
He needs to move forward promptly in whatever direction you send him.
Once I have a horse going well, I do very little groundwork, unless it’s been a while since the horse was worked or there is a behavior issue developing or I have reason to think he needs a little refresher. I just make sure I have no anxiety (spookiness) and the horse will stop and go and give his face.
If I am riding a horse, and run into an issue, I have no qualms about stepping off and doing some ground work and then getting back on.
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I think you can ride once you have the things down that are needed to allow you a safe ride…whoa, disengage hindquarters, the things listed by previous posters. You can work on the rest of the groundwork as you go.
We just bought a horse for my husband, and I’m not exactly sure what all he knows. He free lunges, but not on a line, yields HQs but not fronts. He seems very laid back but I want to do some desensitizing to see what he’s like with that. Under saddle he is responsive to legs, neck reins. So I don’t see me having to do GW before we ride him, other than the desensitizing, so I know how reactive he might be. The rest I can work on as we go.
Not lowering his head to a cue from the ground wouldn’t bother me. The flexing might, bc you may need that for a one rein stop. If he leads fine from point A to B without being a pushy jerk and you just mean that he doesn’t get the concept of moving on a feel in a circle around you, that’s not a big deal. Our new one doesn’t know that either.
Don’t get so hung up on the idea that you aren’t a trainer that it scares you to try. Obviously if you hit a rough patch or get stuck it’s a good idea to seek advice, but so much of this is practice. If something is not working, your timing is either off or
the horse needs a different approach.
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I missed the part about lowering the head on cue from the ground, but I do like to see a horse drop it’s head as we go along since it indicates the horse is relaxing and not worried about what is going on. If the horse is cooperating but has it’s head up and won’t relax, you need to keep working.
This is all great advice, thank you so much. He was pretty good about going through the motions, especially with the desensitizing, but he was pretty shut down about it. And lowering the head and following a feel just aren’t in his toolbox. He gets anxious when you lead him and will bite the lead rope and carry it in his mouth like a dog carrying a leash. Same thing when you ask for flexion on the ground. I’m patient so I have no problem taking the time to fix these things, but also want to make sure my own insecurities aren’t making me do groundwork for years at a time.
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Op keep in mind you are doing groundwork every single moment from the time you step on the property. Horse sees you get out of car: how do you greet him? How do you handle him in the stall or grooming? How do you work with him on functional stuff like back up while I bring in a water bucket? I want a horse to be awareand respectful of me but also relaxed and happy to see me at all moments and this basic attitude is more important than the specific of NH tactics.
That said I have a mare who now has excellent ground work, trick training, agility skills. She is a doll on the ground. And she is still a cow under saddle at times. Great ground work does not transfer seamlessly into great riding. You will still need to train under saddle.
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