PRE vs Warmblood?

[RedTurtle]

Hi everyone!
I’ll be buying my new horse next spring, so I’m already out looking and thinking about what kind of horse I really want. I have seen two very nice PREs for sale right now, and it got me thinking, could PRE be a better option than a warmblood- for me?
A little bit about me: I’ve ridden for 8 years, I have a huge passion for dressage but I am not very advanced, I’m quite a small girl, any horse above 16.1 hh makes me feel like I can’t ride the horse properly because of its size, I like horses with a sensible mind, I get nervous easily so not a hot or spooky horse.

I hope those of you that have experience with PREs or baroque horses can tell me a bit more about them and if, for example, you think they lack something in dressage that a WB doesn’t

I’d also love to hear from those of you that ride WBs, what you think makes it a good breed to choose for dressage or any other things anyone has to say about this matter

[Bluey]

Should you not ask this question in the dressage forum?

In general, bar individual horses being different from the norm, PREs tend to be more steady, less quirky and with considerably easier gaits along with easier to collect, as it comes naturally to them.

WB should be more athletic, tend to have bigger gaits, that score better, but making it not as easy to stay with them for the less advanced riders or those with some physical problems and can be a bit hotter, depending on what is in their mix, not all WB breeds being quite the same.

Then, you can find all kinds of types in all kinds of breeds.
You have to try each horse you are interested in, of any breed and then decide if you click with that horse.

I hear you on being short, being below 5’ myself.
When I did get to ride some advanced dressage horses, that were trained and ridden by bigger people, I had to almost retrain them a bit so they would listen to my very different aids, unless they were really thin made horses, which dressage horses generally don’t tend to be.
Some of those felt like riding elephants, when the same size or bigger in jumpers didn’t feel any different than the smaller ones.

Still, when you are looking at a horse for you, not training for others, you have the luxury to wait to find that one horse that fits you very well, that may not be what you had in mind, some times an interesting surprise.
While looking for another ranch horse, my old ones were 14.3 hands or under, just happen to come on a 15.1 one.
On the ground he towers over me, but riding, he is a perfect match.
It is what it is and we work around that, he is wonderful in all other ways.

My point, if a horse sounds right in so many ways, don’t dismiss it because it is not quite the breed, type or size or any other you really were looking for.

Hope that answers your question.

[Scribbler]

I’ve seen quite a few Iberians and crosses. My coach has them.

In general compared to a Warmblood they are more agile, easier to collect, smaller, and have talent for higher level movements. They are very light to ride. I watched a green mare in a clinic get disobedient by doing canter pirouettes.

​The length of stride at the trot varies a lot between individual Iberian horses. Some have huge floaty natural trots, others require more schooling to get a nice extended trot.

Of course quality of trot varies between WB lines as well. Jumper lines may not ever give you the Olympic level toe flick extension.

I’m saying Iberian here rather than PRE because the PRE is one particular registry. You can also get Andalusians and Lusitanos from the North American registry.

You can also look for an Iberian cross. I know some very nice horses that are Andy or Lusitano crossed with WB or TB. They come out very Iberian. And there are Andy/QH which can look more Andy or more QH, depending.

I’d caution that there are some lower ends of Andy breeding. On the US West Coast the Latino community breeds them as ranch and parade and family horses which might or might not produce what you want.

If you go shopping for an Iberian or cross, pay attention to the horse in front of you. Movement, training, provenance, personality.

Also training Iberians can be a little different from WB. They are naturally collected and balanced so you need to stay off their faces more or they get rolled behind and sucked back. You can start walk and trot lateral work much earlier than people tend to do with WB. But you might find you get beat by a green WB at training level if the WB has a naturally bigger trot.

I have loved what I’ve seen of Iberians and this past month I’ve had a chance to ride an Andy/Hanoverian schoolmaster, very Andy in phenotype. Absolutely the direction I would go if I was getting a new horse.

I rode Western as a kid and did some self taught reining moves. I love that Iberians are cattier even than a good QH yet have the movement for dressage.

[4LeafCloverFarm]

I think what is most import when selecting a horse (IMO), is the temperament, personality and your gut feeling on how you will mesh as a team/pair when meeting the horse in person - not the breed/lineage. There are horses in every breed that run hot or cold in their way of going. Some WBs are push to go and some are whoa nelly. Same with TBs (though there is a terrible misconception, I feel, that they are all “hot”). Can’t speak to PRE’s, as I have no experience there.

I have a draft cross AWS gelding (3/4 TB, 1/4 Clyde) that was training second level when I bought him. He is a 17.2h pony. LOL But, that’s why I love him. I wasn’t actually looking for a dressage horse (I’m more hunter/jumper, though I have done 3-day) or a “warmblood” at the time (I just wanted a fun. all-round horse), but his personality and temperament is what made me decide he was the one. I chose well. Turned out he loved to jump and was better at being a hunter/jumper than dressage. He’s 27 now.

But this is how I’ve always chosen the horses that I ride or own for 40+ years. Its worked well for me. And I realize it may seem hokey to some, to choose a horse this way. What I’ve found is that when you and your pony/horse mesh well personality/temperament wise, they will do anything for you, and that gives you so many options. So, don’t discount the odd ball, the strange breed, the one with no papers, the one that costs too much/too little, the one that nobody else wants (well, barring serious physical impediment, obviously) - because you might just be passing over that “perfect” horse for you.

So excited for you on your journey to find your first horse.Take your time, kick the tires, turn over all the stones, enjoy the process. Have fun shopping!

[CanteringCarrot]

I lean toward PRE/Iberian
​​​​​​
I sold my Warmblood and never looked back. I was just thinking the other day, I’ll probably own only PRE’s and possibly a Lusitano from now on. I don’t know, I just feel a totally different relationship with the PRE’s. I am also a smaller person so I enjoy the lightness and generally smoother gaits of the PRE.

Classic stereotype is that the PRE excels at collection and the downfall will be the extensions. The Warmblood has more impressive extensions, but maybe harder to collect. Often, that is true, but you have to look at the horse infront of you. Those big flashy Warmblood gaits aren’t always so easy to ride either. It takes some strength and conditioning, that’s for sure.

There are some fantastic warmbloods out there for the amateur rider, but I feel as though the PRE makes a better all around horse. A horse that can do well in the dressage ring, but also enjoys hacks, groundwork, and being with their handler. They are highly intelligent, which can also be their downfall LOL

I have a gelding that is quirky. So very quirky. He’s sensitive, he can be hot, but also lazy. However, at the end of the day I trust him, and he doesn’t do anything bad. I think the sensitivity of the PRE has made me a more aware rider.

If you’re just looking at the lower levels, any breed can fit your needs. You need to shop for the mind, and not the breed. Especially if you get nervous easily. Neither my PRE nor WB would get along with a nervous rider, so that’s horse dependent.

[Cat_Tap]

You may think I am stupid but what exactly is PRE?

[4LeafCloverFarm]

@Cat Tap

You may think I am stupid but what exactly is PRE?

Don’t feel stupid. I had to look it up. PRE (Pura Raza Española)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andalusian_horse

[Cat_Tap]

Thank you 4 Leaf I would have known Andalusian but now I also know PRE. Just proves you never stop learning. Coth is so helpful.

[lorilu]

I have a Lusitano, previously an Andi, and before that various WB and a draft cross. I am never going back. In general, the Iberians are:
So much more personable. SO much more forgiving. Can be hot but not spooky - they are sensitive to your mood! One thing to be careful of is that many are trained in the “higher level” collection movements (Piaffe and Passage) but lack the basics of contact and truly working over the back. They sometimes LOOK like they are engaged behind, but they might not be! They might be “light” because they are not into the bit or pushing from behind. In my experience they need a different sort of training than a typical WB - find a trainer who has some experience with them. You cannot “push them forward” into balance - and yes, as noted above, sometimes their evasions are interesting - Bravo has used piaffe when I ask for W to C transition… LOL. Look for a good walk and canter - many of the sales ads only show LOTS of trot. Look for a loose back in the W and T - they can look good but be really locked int he back. (When you try to sit the trot you’ll know…) And when you try one, be sure you ask for a REAL working trot, not a little pony trot that is easy to sit but not what you want.

[joiedevie99]

I love my warmbloods and my PRE. We’ve had lots of discussions of this topic on the dressage forum that should come up in a search if you want more input.

Generally speaking, PREs can be very human-focused, easily trainable horses with comfortable gaits. They don’t come with less challenges in dressage - just different ones. Their biggest challenge in becoming successful dressage horses is learning to move through their bodies with swinging backs rather than by holding their backs still and moving only their legs.

PREs can also be very sensitive, hot horses. You really have to look at the individual just as you do with warmbloods.

[Malda]

@4LeafCloverFarm

Don’t feel stupid. I had to look it up. PRE (Pura Raza Española)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andalusian_horse

I never knew what that meant either.

[MsM]

It sounds like you need to do a little exploring to find out what type of horse might suit you. Have you ridden Iberians or WBs? They are generally quite different “flavors” and different people have different tastes! What kind of situation will you have for your horse? And what about your trainer? Some trainers do well with one type but don’t really understand the other (And some trainers are “bilingual”)
My favorite flavor turned out to be Morgans. A somewhat baroque breed. The personality and the smaller size appealed to me. When browsing sales sites, however, I found tons of Morgans that would have been totally unsuitable for me and not well suited for dressage. Current Morgan is quite talented, very sane, but with quite a motor and lovely dressage-type gaits.
Warning: Horse hunting seems like it should be fun. Most people don’t find it so when they are looking for their personal horse.

[2tempe]

I also have a lusitano - same breeder as Lorilu above. And yes, he did a lot of walk-piaffe-canter. But I think we are over it. I’m an aging ammy who prefers a forward thinking ride that is not stupid. Went from a TB schoolmaster saint to a WB who would rather eat than work to my Lusi. Will not go back. They are a different ride, as mentioned above they can be quick and not correct - need to slow them down in front while not losing hind end so the gaits can open up. My boy will hack ANYWHERE, I have never once felt unsafe on him. There are differences between the PRE and the Lusitano, the PRE’s tend to have a little more “action” in their movement.
This horse is my fantasy horse in a living breathing package. He is competitive enough to qualify for regionals, got me my silver medal and we are in the low-mid 60’s at I-1. He’s fun, has character. My trainer LOVES to ride him, and secretly gets excited when I have to go out of town.

Hey, go try one or two - you have nothing to lose!!

By the way, worth noting that the Iberians have a little different brain - they are sensitive and if pushed into things they will worry. We struggle even now sometimes with canter-trot transitions - it turns into canter - passage or canter- medium trot. If we were talking he would say “oh, fancy stuff, I got it, how about this,here you go, while I say, no, take a breath, relax, listen to me, I’m driving”

[Malda]

@2tempe

Hey, go try one or two - you have nothing to lose!!

That’s the best advice.

[lorilu]

By all means go try one or two. THat’s how I discovered i really wanted an Iberian - I was searching for the “next” horse, I rode a lovely WB mare who was like a machine - and then an Andi who was SO opinionated and SO much fun - I knew he was not for me (besides being well over my budget) but also knew that sass was just what I wanted.

[emipou]

@RedTurtle

A little bit about me: I’ve ridden for 8 years, I have a huge passion for dressage but I am not very advanced, I’m quite a small girl, any horse above 16.1 hh makes me feel like I can’t ride the horse properly because of its size, I like horses with a sensible mind, I get nervous easily so not a hot or spooky horse.

I’ve been half leasing a PRE for about 6 mos now, and am taking schoolmaster lessons on a WB occasionally to help.

What I have learned with the PREs is that, a) Yes, they are hot and in fact considered hot-blooded (I just found this out over the weekend) like Arabs and TBs. b) They are smart AND sensible - but if I confuse my guy, he sort of shuts down until I work myself out, I could see that being a little scary for some; I have never felt like he was going to dump me or felt scared for my safety with him though. c) they feel nothing like a WB - it took me a bit to get used to the change but I love both qualities equally but they are so different.

I would strongly suggest finding a trainer with a PRE that you could try taking lessons on first to see how you feel about the difference.

[Horseman15]

@emipou

I would strongly suggest finding a trainer with a PRE that you could try taking lessons on first to see how you feel about the difference.

This!! One thing to keep in mind too: you said you don’t want a hot horse, yet when it comes to dressage you need something with the stamina too keep performing to the end of the test. Read up articles in the dressage section about the “hot horse”. There’s definitely a difference between hot and crazy. I’m not even close to a week trained dressage rider, but my hottest horse if the one who performs the best when I get him focused and can channel that energy.

Look at what your end goal is, read up on horses performing at that level and winning. Ride different horses, a lot of them. Get a feel for the one that fits you. And, as was stated before, get the horse that matches your personality. If you 2 don’t click on that level you’ll always be fighting each other. A horse that takes Olympic gold won’t win with a rider it doesn’t like

[Magicboy]

I rode WB horses for over 30 years( mostly (holsteiners) Then the horse Gods sent me a Pura Raza Espanol that I referred to as an Andalusian until a breeder from Spain corrected me. At 70, this horse is perfect for me. I’ve never experienced any breed prejudice at shows and he’s energetic but brave and sweet. As the say, one you go Baroque, you’ll never go back

[BrokenArrow]

I was exceptionally lucky to be able to go to Spain and buy a PRE. But while I was there, I got to ride quite a few different PRE’s, a few Lusitano’s and one very awesome little Hispano Arab (Lusitano x Arab). Ultimately, I came home with a very nice PRE mare. In all honestly, while yes she was expensive, I wouldn’t have been able to afford her training and movement if she was a WB.

They were all very different horses to ride. Some were hotter than others, most were expressive movers but could get tense and fling legs everywhere. One thing they all had in common was all of them had fantastic brains. Even if they weren’t what I wanted, I never felt scared or unsafe on any of them. I do love my horses on the hotter side, so I really enjoyed riding that electric feeling you get with them.

Like every horse, you’re going to have different problems with training. But starting with something that has an exceptional brain really does make a huge difference. I’ve also ridden Warmbloods and while I love my boy to pieces, my PRE mare’s work ethic beats his hands down every single day.

But as everyone else has already pointed out, go and ride one. See how you feel with it. They may not be your cup of tea. The breed can have some huge variances in the styles of horses that you can find.

[Scribbler]

I’d also say, whatever breed, buy a horse you can ride and enjoy now. If you are just getting into a discipline don’t over horse yourself with something that shows upper level potential but is too much horse for you right now. That is true for every breed.