Preakness 2023

[smoofox]

Deleted my link to the vid as Montanas Girl beat me to it. There was a better, clearer version of that on YouTube for a while - as part of the complete race reply. He had always had issues with loading - whether onto planes or into the gate. He just picked the wrong time and wrong race to have a particularly determined protest.

How can it be determined during loading for a major race that a horse will not react in a specific way? It can’t - so saying we will never see anything like that again seems to be wishful thinking IMO. Because… horses.

I doubt this one is anywhere on YouTube - but many years ago, Point Given had a spectacular protest before one race - rearing straight up in the paddock a coupe of times and then doing it again behind the gate - striking out at the gate crew. Fortunately, he settled and marched into the gate…

[skydy]

I thought at the time that they really didn’t read the horse well. Of course they know him and I don’t but escalating the noise and the movement around him didn’t seem to be the right move.
He had reached the point of not-going-to-do-it before the blindfold was on.
Hindsight is 20/20.

Bless that gate man’s heart, he was tenacious wasn’t he? What an effort to hang on. So tricky for the others to help him deal with a horse that is seriously double barreling.

[Montanas_Girl]

@smoofox

How can it be determined during loading for a major race that a horse will not react in a specific way? It can’t - so saying we will never see anything like that again seems to be wishful thinking IMO. Because… horses.

I think, given the current public perception of horse racing, that, were a horse to say “NO” as clearly as Quality Road did early in that process today, he’d probably be scratched by the starter and/or vet much faster than what happened in 2009. That’s not an indictment of the starters in this particular case, just my gut feeling about how much more aware of PR issues the racing industry is these days.

I.e.: I doubt we’ll see many longe (or was it a driving) whips on national television these days. Even pulling out the blindfold would surprise me, just given how delicate the current perception issues surrounding racing are. The “shut it down” crowd doesn’t need any more ammunition…

[skydy]

Even the other horse people with whom I was watching that race, were surprised that they pushed him beyond his mental breaking point.

I’m sure the gate men felt a lot of pressure that day. It was a huge race with a huge crowd and an enormous television audience. Wasn’t it the first time Zenyatta ran with the colts? So much adrenaline all around, and what sounds like a helicopter overhead.

Oh well, hindsight and all…

[dressagetraks]

Do they ever start horses on the far outside of the gate now if they absolutely Will. Not. Load? I know they used to way back decades ago. War Admiral was notorious.

Agreed that the guy who grabbed and held QR deserved a medal. That could have been disastrous.

[Mara]

Not anymore.

A very good runner in the UK in the 50s, Zucchero, was known for refusing to start. At that time some racecourses were still using walk-up starts, and stewards used to allow his trainer to hold Zucchero at the start and “throw” him forward when the flag dropped. Sometimes it worked, sometimes he stuck his toes in and said, “not today and you can’t make me”, most notably the Epsom Derby when a very young Lester Piggott was riding.

Piggott later recalled Zucchero as one of the most brilliant horses he’d ridden, which made his behavior all the more exasperating.

[Laurierace]

Well I broke down and paid for a digital subscription to the Baltimore Sun so I could get the attendance figures. It would be an understatement to say they were abysmal at 65,000 for Friday and Saturday combined. The combined total in 2019 was 185,000 iirc.

[Aussie_2020]

Wow, the jockey and the gate crew were amazing! Nerves of steel. I remember being disappointed that QR didn’t race that day, I expected him to win.

[snaffle1987]

Did anyone see the head-on shot of the stretch duel to the wire? Aside from Blazing Sevens coming over and bumping National Treasure (NBD in my eyes); did anyone catch Ortiz practically hanging off the side of the horse trying to impede Johnny V. I know this is far from the first time but it really shows what I consider to be despicable riding tactics used daily by Ortiz. I know he gets the W regularly; but this type of riding is what is constantly under scrutiny, even with some big names within the business.

I am very happy for Johnny but like others; I am disappointed to see Bob come out on top again.
I am sad for his team and for him at the loss of their horse in the first race.
Right in front of the stands for all to see. No one wants to see a horse go through that, never mind run down the stretch like that until its caught. This is the type of stuff that makes me seriously question my love for the sport. It is horrific. And maybe Bob was more upset for his team who works with the horse everyday and is standing at the rail with halter in hand; watching this all unfold. After all of the deaths around Derby week; really didn’t need this.

ALL of the local news outlets are covering the deaths happening around these race days. It’s like an agenda. Even our smallest local news outlets are suddenly covering the racing news BUT only the horrifically bad stuff. The comment sections on their facebook posts are just fueling the whole “shut down racing” vibe.

I like to think that Bob has a genuine love for the horse. Perhaps he does. But I think I will forever have issue with someone who proclaims love for the steeds in their barn but will go to lengths to drug them for the upper hand. And racing has plenty of those types on the backside; regardless of status, and they are literally ruining the sport for the good guys on the backside who are doing right by the animals they have.

I think the race was good. Stretch duels are always exciting. But the entire race was painfully slow. Honestly not sure how National Treasure earned the speed figures he did for the race;
These guys need to stop letting the Baffert horses get to the front and control the race. It’s his M-O and it has proven to be a success over and over again for him in the biggest races. I feel like if NT had someone to chase this race he would be in the same bucket as Mage

Hope Mage’s connections skip the Belmont, let him rest and come back for Saratoga or something similar. He has a bright future, game horse

[Laurierace]

I am not even going to address Bob going back to the barn and drugging his horses because it’s so ridiculous that it’s not worth my time debating.
The best jockeys do whatever it takes to get their horse to the wire first. Sometimes they cross the line of what is legal and get taken down, other times they skate the line and it helps them win the head bob and get their picture taken.

Mage’s connections stated yesterday that they were not going to the Belmont. National Treasure’s connections haven’t decided yet if they are going to Belmont but if I had to guess they will not. They said they will decide by tomorrow

[floppyammy]

@Laurierace

I am genuinely curious and would really like to hear from a person who is legitimately in the game and understands the ins and outs. I have not read the entire Medina Spirit fails drug test thread. Is there genuine statistics and truth behind BB having more drug positives and breakdowns than other trainers? Is there legitimately something nefarious that he is doing that the other top trainers are not? I would genuinely like to hear your thoughts. Feel free to PM me if you don’t want to turn this into another BB thread.

[Laurierace]

I don’t really want to devolve this thread but am happy to answer those questions for you as long as you understand I am just guessing. Why don’t you at least skim my posts on that thread and if you still have questions bump thread and ask them?

[findeight]

@snaffle1987

These guys need to stop letting the Baffert horses get to the front and control the race

Really….

[Laurierace]

She is not wrong, getting to the front and controlling the pace is one of his favorite strategies for obvious reasons as is any trainer’s at any level of racing. It’s called lulling them to sleep, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t.

[omare]

I thought Baffert’s drug positives had more to do with lack of attention to details-(or poor barn protocols ) by himself as the final insurer overseeing /employing, vets, asssitant trainers, grooms, hot walkers etc. -than an actually intent to evade drug testing rules and improve performance illegally.

If he was in any other corporate business I assume it would have implemented/overhauled the quality control procedures.

[Laurierace]

He did overhaul his practices but you are never going to get mistakes down to zero especially when you have to take metabolization rates into account because those are just averages, not all horse’s bodies read the book. I know someone who was obviously not very smart who had her horse get three bad tests for Banamine. Her horse was treated legally within the allowable timeframe yet still came up positive. It would have been smart to skip the Banamine after the second time but nope

[Maythehorsebewithme]

I think the Baffert positives were a combination of poor barn protocols, skating too close to thin ice when administering drugs, and perhaps just plain ignorance. Yes, I said ignorance–he may be able to train a horse to run fast, but how complete a horseman is he?

The Medina Sprit ointment–no notice taken that it contains a banned substance? My vet, who works with Standardbreds, alway commented to me (about my 20 year old pleasure horse), “Now this will test positive, you can’t show on this”. Like a reflex.

How educated or knowledgeable a horseman is Baffert?–was he actually just feeding all his horses thyroxine because he thought it was a kind of vitamin?

[Laurierace]

Ok I am more than happy to entertain questions but how knowledgeable of a horseman Bob Baffert is is not one of them. If that isn’t obvious I don’t know what to tell you that would change that. And no he didn’t think Thyro L was a vitamin he thought it would help them drop weight because it does

[Ghazzu]

@Maythehorsebewithme

was he actually just feeding all his horses thyroxine because he thought it was a kind of vitamin?

No.

[Maythehorsebewithme]

My apologies, I was too flippant with my remark about thyroxine.

When I have seen it used on horses, there is a test to determine if it is appropriate for a given condition, then a starting dose, and then subsequent monitoring to increase or decrease to the correct amount. (In fact that is the protocol my doctor uses with me, as I have an under active thyroid.)

I have understood (Ghazzu, please comment if I am wrong) that he was using it indiscriminately, without monitoring.