Price question

[Foitin]

Imports are not all roses, as many people probably know. We have watched some horses abroad (the same ones) for a period of two years, tried them twice and they still haven’t worked out. Even with sellers you know relatively well, it is hard to know what you’re getting in terms of temperament and quirks, especially for hunter prospects. We’ve had a couple arrive that we’ve bought off videos of riders we know that have shown up a whole hand shorter than advertised, “16h” horses that are essentially today’s big large ponies. Those horse cliques are good for something, here at least I know who is full of S and I’ve seen the horses go at their farms and multiple horse shows.

Edited to say: more often than not, going into areas where you don’t operate, with unknown horse people, you are going to end up screwed rather than with a deal.

[dags]

I’m going to concur that a 7 year old jumping “around 1.20m and below” is not automatically a six-figure horse. The 1.20ms barely even demonstrate the extra scope needed to be a Ch/AA jumper that can survive mistakes, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the record is actually a slew of 1.10m classes and an outing at 1.20m. The 7 year olds run at 1.30m, and anything under 1.25m ridden by a pro doesn’t really prove much of anything. So far there’s nothing to suggest this horse will do the Jr/AOs and $125k is a bit much for an unproven Ch/AA jumper.

[Amberley]

@Foitin

Those horse cliques are good for something, here at least I know who is full of S and I’ve seen the horses go at their farms and multiple horse shows.

Edited to say: more often than not, going into areas where you don’t operate, with unknown horse people, you are going to end up screwed rather than with a deal.

Very true and you do pay for that assurance. Still, if you’re on a budget you need to do get educated, find an educated friend or agent, do the legwork and go see the horse in person and not buy off video etc.

[Tha_Ridge]

I paid around the same amount for something similar last year, but with miles through 1.30m in Europe. Owners knew what they had and again, wouldn’t budge on the price.

[Foitin]

What does getting educated mean, especially for people who have been buying horses for generations? Agents are precisely how to get in trouble, more often than not. I just insist on this because it seems inaccurate to suggest that there are a wealth of cheap horses in the middle of the country to be had for people on tight budgets who are not with snooty trainers on the coasts.

[dags]

@Tha_Ridge

I paid around the same amount for something similar last year, but with miles through 1.30m in Europe. Owners knew what they had and again, wouldn’t budge on the price.

I have full confidence you know what a 120k horse looks like not so much with OP who apparently hasn’t even tried any other horses outside of this one their trainer just happens to have.

[gd1996]

It’s actually crazy the assumptions people make without knowing anything besides a blurb on a website do you honestly think I would buy a 120k horse without ever riding another horse? Honestly. I own another horse I have just never bought anything quite so pricey before.

[Amberley]

@Foitin

What does getting educated mean, especially for people who have been buying horses for generations?

I’m talking people who haven’t been riding for generations. People who have always relied on trainers need to take more personal responsibility imho.

Some agents are excellent, some are terrible. It’s like realtors. People need to be more choosy and educated there too.

[dags]

Have you tried other horses priced at $120k? Because yeah, that will give you a far better measure of the horse in question’s value than a forum that is literally given a blurb to go on and then asked to opine on whether it’s priced appropriately.

[fivestrideline]

Opining on prices is fun though!

[Tha_Ridge]

Good point, and OP, it is always mysterious when a trainer just happens to magically have or know of the exact horse you need. When I was shopping for said similar horse mentioned above, I tried horses that ranged in price for $60k to $175k. It’s very easy to get caught up in this formulaic idea of “Nice Age + Solid Jumping Ability + Good Vetting” should cost X, so even if you love this particular horse and think it’s a good value, it’s worth trying others across all price points.

[Railbird]

I don’t think anyone is saying you have never ridden another horse before, just that you would be well served, if you want to buy another 120k horse, by going out and trying some other 120k horses to ensure that this one is the best fit for your needs, given that your trainer here is representing both sides of the transaction. I am sure your trainer is honest and ethical and not trying to pull anything, but 9/10 times I have seen a trainer approach a client with an opportunity to purchase a sale horse they have in the barn, the motivation is that they either can’t sell the horse to anyone else or don’t care to put in the time and effort to do so, not because they are 100% certain that this is the best animal out there at a given budget for that client. Trying a few others would protect you from that scenario and your trainer as well from any future questions if it turns out to be a bad match.

[Rumorhasit93]

@dags

The 1.20ms barely even demonstrate the extra scope needed to be a Ch/AA jumper that can survive mistakes

I respectfully disagree. I think this is more heart specific than scope. I lot of very careful horses who have the scope to jump 1.20m+ won’t take a joke. Ask me how I know (I had an FEI ranking horse who would stop at 2’6” if you didn’t ride it accurately and with confidence. Every. Single. Jump. ) and I currently own a horse who has never shown over 1.10m but has never, ever stopped. She will three leg a jump before stopping.

Unfortunately, heart is something proven over time whereas scope is fairly easy to evaluate in a short period.

Horse buying is an absolute crapshoot…look at the Baloubet who sold for $15m and never showed again. Happens all the time, at all price points and abilities.

[dags]

Oh I 100% agree @Rumorhasit93. Whether or not they have desire to put up with mistakes is an entirely different kettle of fish. That said, they can have all the heart in the world but if they don’t have the extra scope it takes to crawl out from under a 1.15m oxer then it won’t make a lick difference; it’ll either start stopping or crash. And unfortunately a professional ride around the 1.20m just isn’t much of a scope test to go on.

[dags]

@Tha_Ridge

When I was shopping for said similar horse mentioned above, I tried horses that ranged in price for $60k to $175k.

This. The 1.20m is kind of a no-man’s land; not a legit Low Jr/AO Jumper and may end up being just a scopey Ch/AA horse. Plenty of horses wash out trying to get to the next step, especially when a jr/am takes over the ride, and those are generally not six figure horses without some sort of established winning record.

[173north]

@McGurk

Should be very easy to look up his competition record, both here and abroad. If his name was changed after he was imported, you can get the original name from his passport.

While we are giving our tips on researching horses for sale - search show name (and passport name, if they’re different) on Youtube and Facebook.

[Peggy]

There is also a box on USEF you can tick to search for both current and past names.

Google can work if the name isn’t too common, or isn’t a common word.

[Bluey]

Sorry, COTH again traded threads on me as I was posting.

[541hunter]

And then look for past riders’ names on social media…always amazing to me what people will post publicly about sale horses that doesn’t seem to make it into the official spiel from the trainer.

[Rumorhasit93]

I am happy to play detective too! If you want to PM me, I have been able to find horses european records with little to no info. It’s pretty fascinating! I found my import’s registered name, her show records, and lots of fun stuff (all after the fact, but I digress).