Priced out of the sport?

[AskMyAccountant.17]

I’m sitting here thinking about riding my one horse at the Intermediate level. While we spent two years at the preliminary level, I by no means ran 10-prelims. I definitely think quality over quantity would have been a better assessment. I guess there aren’t that many non-professionals at the Preliminary level and above to speak up? I just had to count the total number of MERs at the Prelim and above level, I’ve got 5 left to go to be a D-rider, so maybe by the end of the year I won’t complain. I just see this as not in the best interest of the horse. That’s so many runs. I know many riders who can ride circles around upper-level riders with the funds and the horses, but they are limited to the number of events they can attend due to finances.

Wouldn’t it be interesting if in addition to MERs you needed a check mark by a Steward? Obviously Dangerous riding should be halted, but if a steward was on grounds that had to present a “check” to each rider at these levels and above I think it would bring about more discussion while riders were on course. No, not fine-tooth comb each round, but the TDs are on the radio/grounds during xc anyways, dangerous riding is brought to their attention, but the dangerous riding would take precedent as a means for not earning your check mark. Rules could even be made to better explain dangerous-riding. For 90%+ every rider that jumped clear would get one, but any disturbing round would be voiced and be in question for not receiving a check mark. I don’t believe I’ve ever seen a Training level round stopped for dangerous riding despite seeing some gasping rounds. So perhaps increase the MERs to 5, but each MER must have earned a check.

This is just an idea. I just see 10 MERs as an excessive amount. I don’t run that many events in the year, but I do spend more money lessons, schooling shows, schooling xc to be prepared so that I can make the competitions I can attend safe and successful.

[MorganSercu]

Have you considered judged pleasure trail riding?

[Libby2563]

Since this is still just a proposed change…does anybody want to try to work together to put together a counter-proposal more friendly to riders on a budget and in more remote areas? I’m thinking it would lower the # of MERs somewhat but incorporate some sort of percentage success rule instead? @AskMyAccountant.17 @Marigold @Gardenhorse @banmharcach @BoringEventer Anyone?

[Marigold]

If I were to be the one writing the rule change, I’d write it as follows (for non-categorized riders):

6 MERs at Training or Modified (I’m pretty open to other thoughts on this though - I don’t actually think the number of MERs is the biggest issue here)
No time limit on earning the MERs
XCJ10 (cross country jumping clear rate over the last 10 runs) must be 70% or higher
Must have earned one of the MERs within 6 weeks of upgrade

In a perfect world, I really like suggestions by people like @AskMyAccountant.17 that include an active stamp of approval by a TD. I don’t know enough about the day-to-day life of a TD to know what is feasible, but perhaps a way to indicate on an entry that you are considering moving up within your next three events - sort of like an “application” to move up, so the TD can pay closer attention to your round and give feedback or approval with that in mind?

[Jealoushe]

I don’t think six is enough. That’s 3 a year. It needs to be at least 8 IMO.

[trubandloki]

Someone started a thread on just this topic. (Just pointing it out in case some missed it.)

2022 New Rules Proposed - MERs Required to Move Up

As much lurking as I do around here and on Facebook I cannot find anyone talking about the new rules proposed when it comes to moving up the levels. Which is kind of shocking to me. Maybe I am way off base but coming from an area that is in the middle of the country I am not sure how our riders will accomplish such feats. Much less keeping trainers in the area rather than forcing them to move to areas with more events. On top of that I worry about the well-being of the horses with this new …

I agree with the people that the rules need to find a balance between helping and not making it impossible for those who do not live in an area that has endless opportunities. I like the six number and I like the idea of a percentage so the scary team can not just go to an event every weekend until they get their magical number.

[Gardenhorse]

Well, I’m not a current USEA member (because, lame horse) so don’t know if that matters. I also have never gone Prelim. I think the most valuable voices might be from people who have safely gone Prelim but aren’t at the level of an A or B rider.

I know 900$Facebook pony has blogged about this, so might be another one to engage, but I never remember her user name here.

[Jealoushe]

I think those in our position who are Training level riders and planning an upgrade are probably the ones who shouldn’t be asked about this, way too biased. Me being one too

[Gardenhorse]

Yeah, you’re probably right. Although I do know “unlicensed” riders (including several professionals) who have safely gone prelim and above who have also stated on FB that they think the 10 MERs are too much.

[banmharcach]

I think they will need a far more graduated “licensing” between B with 25 MER Prelims and UL unlicensed having 0-24 prelims and thus needing 10 trainings as a combination to be able to move up. It’s like a game of snakes& ladders–one new (even experienced) horse & back to the start you go each and every time until you get that magical 25.

Potential remedial downgrading for MR is fine to reduce the achieved tally as is needing a few fairly consecutive decent runs but seasons are not continuous everywhere and XC clinics might prove more beneficial than an extra lower level run on a weak course just to score well. Not all T/P courses provide the same challenges to each competitor whether due to terrain or accessibility.
While qualitative scoring by the TD or course designer or other official would be good, they can’t have eyes everywhere on everyone on course. Likewise some mishaps are just that & shouldn’t be penalized beyond their fault value.

Prelim is a reasonable level of accomplishment but should not be solely the domain of the Olympians–competency of the rank and file should exist & be promoted. Sport is ultimately about challenge.

[Highflyer1]

I have gone Prelim on a horse I brought up through the levels myself and did my first recognized Trainings and first and only Prelims and first time jumping bigger than 3’3. The first year I did Training with him I did I think 5 recognized Trainings and got one MER, at a couple of events I had one stop and at one my horse stumbled landing off a drop into water and I fell off. The next year I think I did one unrecognized Training and roughly 8 recognized Trainings and the T3D. At all of the HTs I got MERs and then I went off course at the 3 day. The year after that I think I did 4 recognized Trainings (all MERs) and then 3 Prelims (all with clear xc and a rail or two sj but at 2/3 I didn’t get qualifying dressage scores-- my horse struggled with the dressage in general due to his headshaking and did not see the point of counter canter. The next year he had colic surgery and never really came back 100 percent but I did get 1 more MER.

I live in Maryland so have access to a lot of competitions but am poor and keep my horses at home with no ring so only really was able to compete April to October, so 1-2 events/month and 8-10/year. It definitely absolutely took me more than 10 events to be ready to compete at Prelim safely. It actually took me a year and half at Training and roughly 12 events before I even really considered it as a possibility. I took lessons with a 5* eventer regularly if not as often as I would have liked and she did not ever even mention it to me (my original goal was the T3D). I did qualify for Intermediate by the rules of the time but would not have been ready by any stretch of the imagination.

[Janet]

There is a new version of the rule change proposalon the USEA web site.

Update on Appendix 3 Rule Change Proposal

It reduces the number of MERs required for an “unlicensed” rider to move up from 10 to 8, and clarifies that it is within an 8 year window. (The 24 months only applied to doing a “Classic Three-Day Event”). Also one MER needs to be within 8 weeks instead of 6 weeks in the original version.

You can send comments and questions to Sharon@useventing.com. Also, once it has been reviewed by USEF, it will be on the USEF web site, and you can submit comments there (if you are a USEF member).

[Blugal]

@Libby2563

Q: how did you come up with 6 weeks?
A: UL riders said 3-6 weeks is optimal interval between last event and move-up; Rebecca Farm dangerous riding penalty involved rider who “bought a schooled horse and did the bare minimum at every level, and not very well…just the bare minimum, and then decided to upgrade to Adv 10 months after their last run”; 3 out of 4 on the watchlists were from underrepresented eventing areas

Wondering about this. I can’t see any dangerous riding penalties in the results available on the USEA site or the FEI warning cards for a rider at Advanced or FEI at Rebecca Farm.

Secondly I want to know how “safety” is defined. I see they used falls, and charted that unlicensed riders fall more than licensed ones. I think horse falls should always count as dangerous, and the chart they used thankfully showed very few horse falls. But I’m not sure that all rider falls can be equated with unsafe riding; or vice versa, not all unsafe riding translates into a fall - you might be very unsafe and go clear… many times… until you don’t.

I’d also like to know if an analysis was done of fatalities and serious injuries, looking at the records of those who suffered them and whether there were any predictors, or not, of the safety of that rider or horse/rider pair. I’m not sure there is strict correlation. Remember in the late 1990s when there were huge numbers of fatalities amongst competent upper level riders?

[mugsgame]

I am just surprised they are not using the British eventing MERs. They work for me as an amateur and on the whole they seem fair.

Our rule is that competitors must have done 3 of the level before at a certain standard (dr below 50, sj less than 16 and 0 xc )before moving up. Don’t need to have done it as a combination either. Intermediate you must have done 5 x prelim and one of those as a combination.

[Libby2563]

@mugsgame

I am just surprised they are not using the British eventing MERs. They work for me as an amateur and on the whole they seem fair.

Our rule is that competitors must have done 3 of the level before at a certain standard (dr below 50, sj less than 16 and 0 xc )before moving up. Don’t need to have done it as a combination either. Intermediate you must have done 5 x prelim and one of those as a combination.

Well what you describe is slightly less onerous than the current system they’re looking to replace (4 MERs).

[beowulf]

For me – I keep my horse at home, and I am very frugal, and even then it gets expensive fast!

Not very many events within a day’s travel of me anymore, and I am in Area 1 and this used to be a mecca for us eventers… I could in theory make it work in one day, but I feel that it is a lot to ask of my horse after he competed. A 2-4 hour drive to and from, plus the event, is a lot to ask of him!

So, event entry: ~$270
Stabling: $100-200
Hotel: $100-200 (I would sleep in my trailer if I could, but many events here expressly forbid it!! lol)
Gas: $80
Food: $50-100

An event becomes a full on destination weekend – and even being cheap as possible, it creeps into a $500 weekend for me.

Instead, I have started putting the money that I would spend competing at USEA recognized events towards local hunter paces and small unrecognized events. I have had the season of my life last year, hit up every hunter pace that ran local to me, and still spent less over an entire season hunter-pacing than I would ONE recognized USEA event.

I’m priced out too – and I have a good paying job and keep my horses at home. I could not imagine trying to make this work if I had to board.

[equinelibrium]

@beowulf

Hotel: $100-200 (I would sleep in my trailer if I could, but many events here expressly forbid it!! lol)

I wonder what the reasoning is for this. Seems like an incredibly dumb rule to me.

[endlessclimb]

@equinelibrium

I wonder what the reasoning is for this. Seems like an incredibly dumb rule to me.

I don’t know, but that’s one rule I buck. I’d imagine it’s for liability reasons, or in the case of events being held on “forest preserve” land that has rules against staying overnight. Whatever, I just sleep in the neck of my goose and stay really quiet.

[trubandloki]

@equinelibrium

I wonder what the reasoning is for this. Seems like an incredibly dumb rule to me.

It might also be an insurance thing. Providing housing (camping) might be a different insurance than simply running a horse event.
This is just a guess. I doubt someone just made the decision to be a jerk.

[equinelibrium]

I guess that makes sense. But it’s still frustrating when rules like this make competing even less affordable.