Pricing a horse with random (past) health issues?

[CHT]

Not my horse, but horse owner will want my opinion.

Horse is a good age, temperament and size, so should have a market. Good training, but not “fancy broke”. Very good walk/trot, but a bit hard to motivate to canter.

He has navicular (managed with Previcox and wedge shoes)

2020 he contracted Lyme
2022 he developed Pemphigus after vaccines. We have vaccinated him since with no issues, but we vaccinate for less than at his previous location (different region).

He has also had sarcoids (removed).

He would likely sell as a lesson/therapy horse.

No idea how to advise pricing him.

[GraceLikeRain]

A horse that struggles to canter and has navicular sounds like a giveaway to me. Maybe low 4s to ensure a good home. What does struggle to canter mean? How hard is Toronto accomplish? Is it steady once established?

Lesson students having to force or hold a canter can develop bad riding habits. As a buyer I’d worry that there’s a connection between the feet, which isn’t a random issue at all to me, and willingness to work.

[fordtraktor]

Navicular horse that can’t canter is a free lease horse. I would not sell because it’s likely to end up in an auction at some point. Trust NO ONE about this!

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I used to ride at a place that had a lesson horse with navicular who was sticky and ploddy in general and would barely canter a lap around the arena with a very experienced, strong rider on his back. He was still put in lessons with beginners and the instructor would just find reasons (as you always can) for the horse not picking up the canter in the student’s position or signaling. I felt so bad for everyone who got put on him. It was so frustrating. And yes, they did pick up bad habits! He would canter a few steps and then come apart, which is not enough for a student to get a feel for the gait.

A therapeutic program doesn’t want a horse with medical issues that make the horse costly to maintain.

[cayuse]

A free lease with frequent checks to a low key home I think would be the way to go. Be really, really careful going the “therapy horse” route. It’s a long story but I recognized a retired show pony being advertised on Craigslist by a local well established therapy riding center for just about meat price. Pony was supposed to return to prior owner when the therapy place was done with her. I contacted the prior owners (who may have still been legal owners and pony was on loan) and they were shocked. They had NO idea pony was being sold, none whatsoever. They picked her up and she had a proper retirement. I know all places aren’t like this, but the experience turned me off completely from letting a horse go to one.

[cattywampus]

We had a similar experience with my sister’s outgrown Pony Club pony about 20 years ago–was out on a free lease to another PC family a state over.

We had done the same thing with my pony and it worked out well, so felt comfortable with “return home when outgrown, etc”; the people loaned him to someone else, who passed him on… lost track of him, shunted him to an equine therapy facility, jumper pony was too spicy for that job, pony went to low-end auction and ended up with dubious bail pen/rescue group (CBER).

The Pony Gods must have been on his side, because a friend saw him, recognized his name and called me. My mom was close enough to go retrieve him (she said he whinnied and came running when she called him) and he finished out his days with them.

That really scared me --you think you have all the safety nets in place, everything is good, and the pony falls off the face of the earth. There is really very little recourse and it’s very easy for even a once-fancy pony with an actual owner to fall through the cracks.

The last time we checked on him (we were volunteering at a Pony Club event) we should have just tossed him in the trailer and taken him home. I really regret that. He was was fed and sheltered, but he just didn’t seem loved/valued. Bothers me all these years later

[cayuse]

Glad it worked out for your pony! I was so upset when I saw the ad for the pony I wrote about that if I couldn’t reach the old owners I was going to buy it. IDK where I would’ve put another pony but DH was on board with it so I guess he was ready to put the tool belt on and make a stall. Thankfully, that Pony God worked it out for him so he didn’t have to .

[fivestrideline]

That’s a local care lease type - perhaps a reputable lesson barn needs a w/t horse and would take him off the owner’s bill. Preferably one that uses the vet and farrier that already treat this horse. I would NOT sell this horse, or put him somewhere no one with a vested interest could check on him regularly.

Unless the therapy program is in the neighborhood, I wouldn’t do that either. A high maintenance horse is not the animal they are looking for - and I wouldn’t trust such a program to maintain him anyway.

This horse is very vulnerable to a bad end if he’s moved on from the people that care about him. Expensive to maintain (lots of people consider basic steel shoes expensive, let alone daily Previcox), doesn’t canter (probably due in part to physical limitations), etc. Free lease locally, IMO.

[luvmyhackney]

Free lease to someone that wants a safe horse to pack w/t kids around.

[CHT]

He canters fine over a course of small jumps, and canters fine with experienced riders (albeit spurs help), and canters ok if I encourage him from the ground, but he is difficult to canter for someone not confident. he does better if cantering in a group. I don’t think this is foot related - he was boarded with me when he was younger, and his owner was the kind to nag at the canter rather than get after him and be quiet, so I think he takes any hint the of the rider relaxing to stop, and unfortunately I no longer ride to school the issue.

he was a school horse for kids before he came to me and I think they made his bad habits worse.

I am not ok with suggesting a free lease to her, as then the person leasing has no real motivation to be pro-active in maintaining him. His price would be in the 4s, I am just not sure where. He should be useful for a lesson program as he is a big, solid guy with great manners, but I recognize his special needs cuts into their bottom line.

I am seeing 20 year old horses advertised for $6k+, he must be worth at least half that no?

[CHT]

he’s a big horse so not what I think of for little kids. Not super tall (16 hands), but solid/very deep chested. He’s a fantastic beginner adult horse - trots willingly, does the TOF, TOH, leg yielding, shoulder fore, obstacles. Doesn’t care if you get on and off awkwardly. Just needs motivation to canter. He’s a pretty cool horse, he just doesn’t fit my program.

[GraceLikeRain]

@CHT

I am not ok with suggesting a free lease to her, as then the person leasing has no real motivation to be pro-active in maintaining him.

Honestly someone who cuts corners will cut corners, a $3,500 purchase price won’t make a difference. Personally, I’d argue you will find a higher caliber of caregiver with someone who feels that they have been entrusted with an opportunity to have a confidence builder as opposed to someone who is a chronic deal hunter or only has a low 4s budget. We all know that a few gnarly vet bills can blow past a purchase price like that.

I’m sure she can get $5k if he’s genuinely sound and can canter with some encouragement even if he is a mid teens. I’d just really heavily screen a buyer about their financial expectations and long term plan.

[IdahoRider]

Add me to the voices saying he is a care lease and not a purchase type horse. Yes, you might be able to squeeze a thousand or two out of a buyer, but a buyer will want to canter at some point. Or the grandchildren will outgrow the ride around the pasture during summer visits. Whatever the situation is that makes a horse like this attractive to a buyer.

Not fair to the horse.
Sheilah

[FjordBCRF]

@GraceLikeRain

Personally, I’d argue you will find a higher caliber of caregiver with someone who feels that they have been entrusted with an opportunity to have a confidence builder as opposed to someone who is a chronic deal hunter or only has a low 4s budget.

I agree with this.

I also agree that the owner needs to be very thoughtful about their options or this guys gonna end up at an auction.

[red_mares]

A nice walk-trot lesson horse that won’t trot actually has value in a lesson program. My trainer has an older Morgan gelding that goes to just about every show because he won’t canter. It’s one less thing for green Academy riders to worry about. I don’t know that translates to the OP’s area of the world.

[CHT]

I had someone come see him today that would be a perfect fit. They will have to come back to actually ride him as he hasn’t got his shoes yet and has been off all winter, but they spent a lot time with him. Long term home as a therapy/lesson horse - found out the dude leads fine from a wheelchair, although he suspects the handles are edible. Gave them a price that isn’t much more than than value of all his stuff. Not a price I would advertise at, but this was a ISO ad. Unfortunately not super local. Hopefully it works out.

I CAN’T offer a care lease. His owner lives 1000 km away and has a serious health issue. I can’t commit to taking him back as who knows what I will be doing in a year or two. When he first came back to me, it was a desperate move as he was not doing well where he was…and it worked, his health is great, and having him here was a weight off his owner’s mind. I feel a lease when there might not be anyone to take the horse back is MORE likely to mean he ends up at auction than a viable long term home.

[red_mares]

Hope it works out for you. The gelding I mentioned was a rescue that an early customer got. That woman was a pretty green/timid rider. I don’t remember exactly how it happened, but he got used for lessons and the woman ended up giving him to the trainer and ended up with a couple minis. She died a couple years ago and the trainer got the horse outright. Things tend to happen for a reason. Funny thing, the old man must have been something when he was younger (20+ now) because he always puffs up at shows. It’s good for the kids. LOL

[FjordBCRF]

@CHT

Long term home as a therapy/lesson horse - found out the dude leads fine from a wheelchair, although he suspects the handles are edible. Gave them a price that isn’t much more than than value of all his stuff. Not a price I would advertise at, but this was a ISO ad. Unfortunately not super local. Hopefully it works out.

I volunteer at a therapy barn, and they have said that it usually takes a little while (6-12 months) to see if the horses really enjoy their therapy jobs after they have really had time to just settle in to their new life. They have had plenty not work out long term, even though the horse was otherwise well suited for it.

Do you have anything in writing what happens to the horse if they find out he doesn’t love a therapy job? Are the sellers willing to just retire him? Hopefully it all works out, but always good to have a backup plan in a case like that.

[CHT]

They also have a lesson program, so he wouldn’t be just a therapy horse.

Hopefully his (current) owner will offer them some sort of trial period and let me bring him back to try again to find him a suitable home. He is too young to expect them to retire him.