I was just browsing the online stallion register - I was curious to see what Smarty Jones stands for now, since his 1st crop has been, well, a little short of dominating. His fee is listed as “private”.
I’ve usually seen this with stallions who are getting up in age, but what are some other reasons a breeder like Three Chimneys might decide on private treaty terms?
It usually means it’s VERY expensive…
Well in Smarty’s case I think it means we don’t want to irk our shareholders by advertising how low the fee has sunk. They know they aren’t likely to make their money back but don’t need to be constantly reminded of that fact. I also think it has something to do with auction prices. People don’t want to see that a weanling sold for 10% of the stud fee or whatever it may end up being so they don’t put the fee out there for comparison.
Sometime it definitely means if you have to ask, you can’t afford it though!
What laurierace said…
I kind of thought it might be something like what laurierace said. I knew there was no way Smarty’s fee had gone stratospheric. And I knew when Claiborne took Seeking The Gold’s fee private late in his stud career it meant that his breedings would be limited to a very few people willing to pay a very high fee.
Actually, no. Usually when a fee is very high, the stud farms are delighted to let you know it. 
Private usually means what Laurierace said, or that the horse has issues, or that the fee is very negotiable–and will be quoted at different prices to different people.
[QUOTE=Mara;4149489]
I kind of thought it might be something like what laurierace said. I knew there was no way Smarty’s fee had gone stratospheric. And I knew when Claiborne took Seeking The Gold’s fee private late in his stud career it meant that his breedings would be limited to a very few people willing to pay a very high fee.[/QUOTE]
When was STG private?
Last I heard…they were almost begging people to breed to Smarty.
[QUOTE=bugsynskeeter;4149818]
Last I heard…they were almost begging people to breed to Smarty.[/QUOTE]
You are correct. I think you could get to him for around $10k, and they were throwing a lot of foal shares out there like they did with Point Given.
[QUOTE=Las Olas;4149573]
When was STG private?[/QUOTE]
I remember seeing his fee advertised as private in the Blood-Horse prior to his being pensioned. It may have been his final season at stud, or the last 2 seasons.
When I was in the racing business “private treaty " often meant that the stallion owner/mamager could pick and choose mares to best suit their stallion and thereby best promote him. The better mares got a better fee, or some 'deal” like foal picks.
[QUOTE=Mara;4150069]
I remember seeing his fee advertised as private in the Blood-Horse prior to his being pensioned. It may have been his final season at stud, or the last 2 seasons.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, that was asked tongue in cheek. STG was never listed as Private. The only recent stallion at Claiborne to be listed as Private for any length of time was Danzig. He always sold for $200,000-250,000 during that time, but since there were no farm contracts, they listed him as Private and the syndicate members (and Mrs. Stephens) could sell for what they wanted.
Most syndicate agreements do not allow for the syndicate members to advertise the fees in print for less than the farm price, as it devalues the horse and undercuts the farm seasons. So, when you look at some of the Bloodstock agents websites, you’ll see stallions listed at stud fee that you know you can get cheaper, or they’ll say “call for price.” Some agreements have this clause for ‘x’ number of years, some for the life of the agreement. So, when a stallion ages, or has proven himself beyond a certain point, the farm may advertise as “private” to nullify the advertising clause in the agreement. And, as Lauirerace and LaurieB previously mentioned, this is also sometimes done when a stallion isn’t meeting expectations and he was overpriced in the first place. In Three Chimneys logic, listing Smarty as “Private” probably has less of a bite (based on perception) than “10,000.” This also allows them to play with it a little more based on his current runners, mare quality, client relationship, etc.
I hope this makes sense.
Thanks for the correction on STG, Las Olas. I could have sworn I saw him listed as private at one time. Must be old age getting the best of memory!
[QUOTE=Mara;4151258]
Thanks for the correction on STG, Las Olas. I could have sworn I saw him listed as private at one time. Must be old age getting the best of memory![/QUOTE]
I figured you were probably thinking of Danzig. He had been listed as Private for a few years.
[QUOTE=Las Olas;4150135]
Sorry, that was asked tongue in cheek. STG was never listed as Private. The only recent stallion at Claiborne to be listed as Private for any length of time was Danzig. He always sold for $200,000-250,000 during that time, but since there were no farm contracts, they listed him as Private and the syndicate members (and Mrs. Stephens) could sell for what they wanted.[/QUOTE]
I remembered seeing STG as Private, too, so I dug out the Blood-Horse stallion register from 2002, and confirmed it. I didn’t check any other years.
Acquaintences of mine do it so they can pick mares (to a degree) and to disuade tire kickers. Those are the two main reasons out here in the middle of nowhere as I know the fee on the most expensive horse is 5K
[QUOTE=Beaver Breeze;4151520]
I remembered seeing STG as Private, too, so I dug out the Blood-Horse stallion register from 2002, and confirmed it. I didn’t check any other years.[/QUOTE]
I guess the difference is that I don’t use the stallion registers as the listed stud fees, I use the fax sheets that the stud farms send the breeders directly. I keep the masters in a binder and transfer the info over to an excel spreadsheet for quick reference. STG’s stud fee in 2002 was listed at $225,000 payable 9/1. I didn’t even think to look in the B-H before I posted.
Just as an aside, I have never (not once) paid the stud fee listed in the Blood-Horse to breed to a stallion. Because of the early deadline, the farm’s either list TBA, Private, but mostly they use best-case-senario pricing. I’ve generally paid less, but a couple of times paid more.
In Smarty’s case, the “private” label is also being used to protect those people who bred to him for $100,000 and will be trying to sell at auction this year. If it were made public that you could get to him for $10,000 this year, for instance, it would definitely hurt the value of his sales progeny. Not that the price of his progeny won’t take a major hit going forward, mind you, but it’s not so blatant.
Personally, I think it’s kind of sad what’s happened with Smarty’s stud career. I don’t think I can recall such a meteoric plunge to the bottom of the Kentucky stallion corps since, well … hmmm, I can’t think of any stallion offhand right now. He’s been bred to the best mares, but something along the line just didn’t click.
Sometimes the “best mares” aren’t the RIGHT mares for a particular stallion. A lot of people breed their good mare to the hot new stallion hoping to hit a home run at the sales but with little thought of how well the horses actually complement each other.
[QUOTE=Las Olas;4152201]
I guess the difference is that I don’t use the stallion registers as the listed stud fees, I use the fax sheets that the stud farms send the breeders directly. I keep the masters in a binder and transfer the info over to an excel spreadsheet for quick reference. STG’s stud fee in 2002 was listed at $225,000 payable 9/1. I didn’t even think to look in the B-H before I posted.
Just as an aside, I have never (not once) paid the stud fee listed in the Blood-Horse to breed to a stallion. Because of the early deadline, the farm’s either list TBA, Private, but mostly they use best-case-senario pricing. I’ve generally paid less, but a couple of times paid more.[/QUOTE]
And therein lies the difference! It’s occurred to me, more than once, that the Stallion Register was more for the fans who like to look at the pretty pictures than it was for the serious breeders. I would think that someone with a good mare and high five or six figures to drop on a stud fee either already is well-informed or gets a consultant.
I love the Register - I use it often when kicking back in front of TVG. (I live in Georgia. ANYTHING racing-related is welcomed in this household, as it’s usually a little tough to come by).
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
