Problem horse (making me feel crazy as well)

[Bekah]

Stay with me people, I need your help!

Rescue horse. Sold as QB, acts more like a TB.

When bought, he had a dental check that showed bit scarring. He was not sensitive or seemed in pain according to the tooth fairy.
HATED a snaffle, a Tom thumb, any jointed bit.
Moved into happy mouth. This resolved the head tossing completely.
I have trained tons of horses into wonderful lesson horses, trail, jumping, etc. I’m fairly well rounded, with TB race/broodmare exp as well.

So now we get to it. This 10 year old gelding seemed to show a bit of shoulder off on a “2nd day ride”
We began in the round pen, adjusting to the bit and cues. Gw is absolutely perfect, voice commands, whoas on a dime.
In the saddle he will go well, or he will lose his mind in an arena he’s ridden in previously. I’m talking normal trot, happly movement, to FULL 4 beat gallop head long at the fence.
I train on building, master the round pen, move up to arena. Master arena, small trails, etc.
I took him to a field after mastering some other areas for a quiet walk with a field pasture friend (calm and dopey) riding beside us. and he acts like we have hit the racetrack. Hopping, frothing, circles was the only way out of the gallop I wasn’t suggesting.
So downgrade back to arena. He hauls a@@ towards the fence again, to nowhere, and my brakes are again lost.
Where I’m lost with him is this. Your mouth doesn’t hurt. You aren’t acting lame in the slightest.
You are responding beautifully, and then with no warning you lose your mind again and it’s off to the races. This has been months of training, g/w, baby steps, big steps, and always we come back to acting hot and insane at no warning.
Could this be neurological?
Just to be clear, he is the sweetest horse on the ground. Loves my children, loves attention, gets along well with other horses.
Help!

[Dani]

Kind of off the wall, but the first thing that popped up in my head was Ulcers. It sounds a little random for ulcers, but horses all react differently to pain.

[atr]

I’d take a very close look at his back and neck, if he were mine.

[rockymouse]

I don’t know where you are located or where the horse has been, but I’ve seen a horse with mild locoweed toxicity act similar to what you’ve described. I hope this is not the case with this animal; loco-ed horses never improve and remain unpredictable.

[beau159]

Any possibility he could be in pain anywhere? Maybe a full lameness evaluation wouldn’t be a bad thing to rule it out; they could also do a basic neurological exam to make sure things check out fine. Chiropractor wouldn’t be a bad idea either.

I don’t have any particular suggestions for his behavior. Sometimes it works to let a horse go-go-go-go until they don’t want to go anymore; but with others, this can backfire. It’s kind of one of those “know your horse” type of things. Maybe he needs a bunch of loooong wet saddle blankets to learn to calm down?

[BEARCAT]

Ulcers, saddle fit, kissing spine, teeth, etc, etc
Could be so many things. How can we ever know if they’re really “not in pain…?”

[Bekah]

I will definitely be looking into the ulcers, but I don’t feel like that’s his issue…he keeps weight well, has never colicked, doesn’t bite the belly etc. I am definitely wondering about ten kissing spine though? I will be having a vet out ASAP to ensure soundNess and possible pain, if nothing then to the chiro we will go!!

[beowulf]

can you share videos?

don’t discount ulcers - when I worked at an eventing facility, the horses were scoped each month - only one of them with ulcers showed classical signs (girthy, poor keeper, cribber). The rest were sleek and happy but their scope told another story.

I also would not throw out saddle soreness/back-soreness from a badly fitting saddle. I had a gelding do the same to me - Jekyl & Hyde impersonation… Some days brilliant, other days it was like he had never been broken/backed before. it was the saddle.

[Aces_N_Eights]

[QUOTE=rockymouse;8842659]
I don’t know where you are located or where the horse has been, but I’ve seen a horse with mild locoweed toxicity act similar to what you’ve described. I hope this is not the case with this animal; loco-ed horses never improve and remain unpredictable.[/QUOTE]

This was my first thought as well. I had a “Weedy” horse that used to do the same thing.

[ezduzit]

We had one like that and decided it was pain of some sort. A twinge or a gotcha pain. He was in his 20s so rather that put him through a lot of vet work, we retired him. He also was exceptionally sweet on the ground, well-mannered, a true gentleman. But would go nuts every so often. Threw my daughter who ended up with TBI (with helmet new and on) as well as soft tissue back injury.

[beau159]

@beowulf;8844378

don’t discount ulcers - when I worked at an eventing facility, the horses were scoped each month - only one of them with ulcers showed classical signs (girthy, poor keeper, cribber). The rest were sleek and happy but their scope told another story.

Just another point to add, that you cannot scope for hindgut ulcers so even a “clean” scope result doesn’t 100% guarantee there aren’t ulcers.

[Bekah]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8844378]
can you share videos?

don’t discount ulcers - when I worked at an eventing facility, the horses were scoped each month - only one of them with ulcers showed classical signs (girthy, poor keeper, cribber). The rest were sleek and happy but their scope told another story.

I also would not throw out saddle soreness/back-soreness from a badly fitting saddle. I had a gelding do the same to me - Jekyl & Hyde impersonation… Some days brilliant, other days it was like he had never been broken/backed before. it was the saddle.[/QUOTE]

I took some video today, but the funny thing is, he was much better. I got a different saddle, english rather than western and he seemed much more relaxed and at piece. he still acted a bit hot, but nothing like the screw you atitude I was getting before where he would just break out of that lovely trot and gallop at a diagonal at a fence. he was strangely calm, even on a trail he perked up but didn’t do his normal crazy prancy, veer off into nowhere land sidepass.
Maybe I have found something here? I’ll be riding him tomorrow, and we will see if he flips his switch again (Let’s just pray the western wasn’t okay with him!!!)

[Bekah]

I’m located in winchester va… I will have to research this