A little of topic, but a timely question -
My barn is grounded and all of my outlets are GFI outlets. On occasion, when I have unplugged my tank heater, I have seen a “spark” come from the outlet, yet the GFI does not trip. Is my wiring faulty? I’ve completly remodeled my barn and all of the wiring is new. I also had this problem with my original barn.
Normal
The spark you see is the arc caused by disconnecting under load. The heater was drawing power when you unplugged it. If this bothers you, just flip the circuit breaker before unplugging.
Here’s a youtube clip of a switch opening under load at (1/2 million) 500,000 volts. your heater is at 120 volts.
We were advised by several farmers NOT to use GFI outlets because they trip ALL the time. Were advised to use the copper wire instead…my DH has waited til the last minute and plans on plugging this sucker in tomorrow and hasn’t even thought about grounding it…I know we have to do one or the other…how many rods does one need to ground it and how do you keep playful geldings from pulling the copper wire out?
I solve the heater problem by not using them. I keep a shovel handy, and break up the ice 2-3 times a day. Water heaters draw a lot of current, and can often be the cause of barn fires. Three of them use the same current that it takes to heat my entire apartment in the winter.
Add that to the fact that some horses will not drink with heaters in the troughs, and it does not get me a better situation.
[QUOTE=spotmenow;4547664]
We were advised by several farmers NOT to use GFI outlets because they trip ALL the time. Were advised to use the copper wire instead…my DH has waited til the last minute and plans on plugging this sucker in tomorrow and hasn’t even thought about grounding it…I know we have to do one or the other…how many rods does one need to ground it and how do you keep playful geldings from pulling the copper wire out?[/QUOTE]
If a ground fault trips, you have a problem.
Fix it.
Your neighbor’s advice is terrible.
CSSJR
I’ll reiterate CSSJR’s post, IF a GFCI trips there is a problem. Fix it.
The GFCI is tripping because electricity is “escaping” the normal pathway. There are fewer farmers every year advising “Not to use GFCI outlets…”
They get killed. The smart farmers survive.
[QUOTE=Fairview Horse Center;4547686]
I solve the heater problem by not using them. I keep a shovel handy, and break up the ice 2-3 times a day. Water heaters draw a lot of current, and can often be the cause of barn fires. Three of them use the same current that it takes to heat my entire apartment in the winter.
Add that to the fact that some horses will not drink with heaters in the troughs, and it does not get me a better situation.[/QUOTE]
We installed hd outdoor timers so the heaters are on for 1/2 an hour, off for two - seemed like a good use of $10 to me, plus breaking thick ice a couple of times a day simply doesn’t cut it this far north!
I think the gist of what hosspuller and cssssssssssutton should go into a sticky, as this is a common and potentially serious problem, and there are clearly an awful lot of misconceptions out there.
Thanks, the two of you, for making sense of this!
Same thing happened to me a few years ago. I also bought one of the big heated water buckets. My horse simply wouldn’t go near the old tank.
Can’t say I blamed him!
[QUOTE=hosspuller;4544351]
Folks … Be careful. There are some mis-informed posts on this thread. This is a dangerous condition. You or a horse can be killed by electricity. There is no circumstance that should allow electricity leakage. “Excess” electricity is NOT a problem. The old electrical system is THE problem. There should be NO leakage to ground. Ground wires in the water are just a band-aid and NOT recommended. Fix the system ground. A ground should be ground not a “maybe” ground. The current standard calls for two ground rods driven at the service entrance. Old farms and houses may have only a water pipe loosely attached somewhere. Critical safety systems deserve solid, tight, connections.
ORIGINAL POSTER: The heater that is shocking is faulty. Prove it to yourself by switching it with the heater that isn’t shocking. The GFCI will likely trip. It is working AND shocking in its current location because there isn’t a GFCI
A GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) will protect only from current going to ground. A GFCI is specificly allowed in non-grounded systems by the National Electric Code. See here: http://www.icgov.org/site/CMSv2/File/housing/genInfo/wiringAlts.pdf
A portable GFCI can be connected between an outlet and extension. They are available! see here http://www.budgetlighting.com/store/agora.cgi?page=tower_in-line_gfci_catalog.html[/QUOTE]
THANK YOU…
also, have your power company out to check for “STRAY VOLTAGE” if you have “stray voltage” this is something THEY need to fix. they usually put in a “split neutral”
another possible reason for shocking!
Hi there - perhaps someone already mentioned this, but if you run electric fencing, the grounds for that unit are supposed to be at least 50 feet away from you water source. That might be the issue if nothing else seems to work. Val
[QUOTE=Romany;4548061]
We installed hd outdoor timers so the heaters are on for 1/2 an hour, off for two - seemed like a good use of $10 to me, plus breaking thick ice a couple of times a day simply doesn’t cut it this far north![/QUOTE]
That’s brilliant. I try to shut mine off during the day if it’s in the high 20s and turn it on at night. Troughs are in the sun, so that seems to do it until it’s bitter cold. I’m going to run out and buy timers while the Christmas landscape stuff is still out.
I had the shocking problem with the drop in heater, and since my water is at the house, dragging 175 feet of hose every day in the winter stinks. I filled my big rubbermaid tank full, then bought one of the big heated muckbuckets. I broke ice from the rubbermaid tank and filled the heated tank for a week from the bigger one. Works ok in makeshift horse facilities.
Well, the electrician never showed or called so I am at a standstill at that end. I bought a new heavy duty extension cord and plugged it into a different outlet and the trough level is going down. No one is coming in from turnout and guzzleing their stall buckets so I guess they’re all drinking from it. I wish I could unplug it when the horses are out but the reason we put those heaters in is so that we can use those paddocks at night too (they have run ins). In our regular day time only paddocks we fill and dump everyday so that we don’t have to deal with the heaters (we put a hydrant between those paddocks so we could stop gas canning it every day).
Ah … HA!
That may tell us something. The original outlet or extension cord could be wired incorrectly. Each outlet has a prong that is “Hot” The other prong is neutral and the ground prong. The two prongs could be reversed. or the ground may not be a good connection. Either could be a cause of “stray” electricity. A simple outlet tester … (plugs into an outlet with different lights) may pinpoint the issue.
see here for tester http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2665480&CAWELAID=109389922
Thank you for this thread!
Thank you, thank you for this thread! We installed a drain plug heater from TSC into our Rubbermaid trough about two weeks ago. We had to leave town shortly thereafter, so (because I’m paranoid) we also filled our 100 gallon metal trough. When we came back we noticed the water hadn’t gone down in the heated trough but thought the farm sitter had filled it back up. My husband then commented that the horses keep drinking from the other tank, but then they always preferred that in summer, too.
Two nights ago, I noticed my horse come up and paw at the tank. I didn’t think anything of it, until he started to put his nose in and jerked back like it was shocking him. I remembered this thread and tried to tell my husband the water was shocking him. He assured me it wasn’t and said I read on the internet too much. :no: Yesterday, my horse had pawed all of the water out of the heated trough, and continued to paw at the empty trough. My husband said he was just being a PITA (my gelding is one of those perpetual 2 year-olds). I finally convinced him that he (the horse) was trying to tell us something. My husband tested the water with a voltmeter and it was charged with almost 3 volts! The worst part is, it was doing that when it was plugged in and off. Only unplugged was it not showing the charge. We grounded it with the suggestions shown here and poof, no more shocking water. My poor horses! I was so upset and of course my husband feels terrible. We’ll continue to monitor it closely and thank God I had been watering them in the barn at night. It could have been very scary!
Well, here we are again. It’s now 1 yr later and we installed a GFI outlet and the same trough is shocking the horses (but the GFI is not tripping). It’s not the electric fence arcing because it’s not even plugged in. I really hate winter.
I thank you also for this thread…
I spent 6 hours outside yesterday arranging troughs, arranging tank heaters, trying to make sure all my darlings had lots of nice not-frozen water all the time…it’s so nice to be reminded I’m not the only one slogging away with this stuff…My feed store puts up a sign on their door after the ‘official’ start of winter of How Many Weeks Left Till Spring then each week they update it.
Do you have a ground rod driven into the ground next to your tub and a copper wire running directly from the ground rod into the water? You really need to do this for it to be safe. I was having problems with horses getting zapped off and on until I finally figured this out. (Of course, that’s assuming your electrical wiring and outlets are all set up / grounded correctly)
[QUOTE=Jumpin_Horses;4548132]
THANK YOU…
also, have your power company out to check for “STRAY VOLTAGE” if you have “stray voltage” this is something THEY need to fix. they usually put in a “split neutral”[/QUOTE]
:yes:
I just bought a new 12 gauge extension cord and plugged it into a different outlet. As well, I bought copper wire and a ground rod which is going to be driven in today. However, o wise ones, am I going to have trouble because the ground rod is about 6 inches away from a hot fence? The ground rods for the fence charger are 100’ away from the trough.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
