Producing a hunter: how to do it?

[julia.eq.h]

Hello! I’m very lucky to be allowed to ride/train a horse to jump and work on flatting and get him in shape. The horse is used for lessons sometimes (mainly walk trot) but his owner wants him to be worked more and jump + get taken to shows. They offered me the chance to ride him and train him to jump again.

• just a disclaimer: I will be working with a trainer at all times and I have full permission!

I really don’t want to mess up with training because I am very passionate about my riding. Please tell me if my plan is good!!

1. First I want to work on flatwork. I have noticed that there is some resistance to bending and accepting the bit, and some left drift. I plan to do a lot of circle work and bending work to correct that before I go too jump higher. I think this would fix some of our jumping issues because he has a hard drift/ is really wiggly to the jump. His gaits are pretty adjustable and comfortable as well, but the main issue is the bending. For me right now, I feel like flatting is the top priority.

2. I really want him to be more reactive to my aids. He is already pretty reactive but our canter transitions are sticky, so I need to work on that more. How do I make sure he stays reactive and doesn’t get dull?

3. I have already jumped him over some x-rails for fun, but I want to properly introduce him to jumping. I will do some trot and canter poles while flatting, then start doing some mini x rails for a while then verticals once I feel like he has got it. He is a really brave guy and he likes to jump (I think he used to jump in his past job, it was really easy jumping him). Nonetheless, I’m going to trot my jumps at first and introduce them slowly so he doesn’t get scared.

I am so excited to go on this journey, just want to make sure im doing a good job. I will have a lot of help from my trainers but doesn’t hurt to have some more advice.

Also! Just an extra little question: What would we compete in for the hunters/eq for the AA/A/B shows? He is a 15.1 hh Connemara I believe (not sure). I usually ride 16.2+ horses in the hunters and eq because im 5’7 but I love riding so I will show and ride anything available no matter what. I could do the small hunters but a 15.1 hony versus a 15.3 warmblood is a hugeeee difference imo. His gaits are so beautiful and “Huntery” though so I feel like it would be sad to not show him in hunters.

[GraceLikeRain]

It sounds like it could be mutually beneficial if you are getting ride time with a coach and their horse gets more work. It’s always helpful to have sometimes uncomfortable conversations upfront. Make sure expectations around who is paying for lessons, shows, etc is understood before things go too far. If it is more of a handshake deal also recognize they can take back the opportunity at any point or pass it to someone else.

Depending on the horses prior experience, your experience, and the general health of the horse, slow is best. Take time to get really solid having three adjustable gaits and calmly cantering pole courses before trying to jump full courses or show. When it starts looking “boring” to non horse people you’re going in a great direction. The horse should be relaxed and happy, you should feel calm and confident.

[fivestrideline]

This. Definitely figure out expectations - how many rides a week, how often are you allowed to jump, can you jump outside lessons at all, etc. These can be barn rules AND need to be cleared with the owners.

The key to a good hunter round is adjustability and flatwork - and making it invisible! Can you wtc with prompt, smooth transitions between and within? Getting a horse to come back smoothly from a big canter to a small one is where a lot of people struggle. What about lateral work? Being able to add a stride in a bending line or coming out of the corner by leg yielding out can save a distance. Can you control the shoulders and the haunches, separately as well as in a unit?

Then you add pole courses. “Pole work” in the dressage sense can be added earlier - but cantering a course of poles smoothly while nailing your distances is a great guide to whether you’re ready to start jumping. Your trainer can guide you through the jumping part, but I firmly believe that if you can’t canter a course of poles and get your changes (simple or flying), then you have more work to do. Pole courses don’t wear your horse’s legs out either!

From there, placing poles, trot in-canter out, and gymnastics are your friends. Remember that the horse only has so many jumps in his lifetime. Also, if the horse doesn’t have a change, don’t school changes without your trainer’s help. Changes are SO easy to ruin and will make or break a hunter.

[fivestrideline]

@julia.eq.h

Just an extra little question: What would we compete in for the hunters/eq for the AA/A/B shows? He is a 15.1 hh Connemara I believe (not sure). I usually ride 16.2+ horses in the hunters and eq because im 5’7 but I love riding so I will show and ride anything available no matter what. I could do the small hunters but a 15.1 hony versus a 15.3 warmblood is a hugeeee difference imo. His gaits are so beautiful and “Huntery” though so I feel like it would be sad to not show him in hunters.

Height of horse doesn’t matter. Stride and changes will. If he can’t get down the lines in that metronome canter past X height (some horses max out at 2’6", a lot at 3’), there you go.

Lean on your trainer here but in general, I’ll start horses showing at weekend C type shows in Schooling Hunter or similar at 18" or 2’ - something the horse can easily trot around if needed. Sometimes horses (or riders!) get rather overfaced at shows with the atmosphere and really need something with little fill that they can pop over with ease.

FWIW - I don’t think it’s a realistic goal to take a w/t lesson horse who seems to have no jumping experience and go show the Small Juniors any time soon, especially when you haven’t trained a green horse like this and also don’t own or lease him outright. I would clarify what your trainer and the owners expectations are ASAP - “get showing experience” may mean “do the Outreach 2’ a couple times with OP footing the bill”. Which is awesome experience, and getting a greenie going like that is really valuable.

[julia.eq.h]

Thank you!

Yeah, I realize that might be a hefty goal but I dont mean anything like JHF or anything, more just the age hunters or the 2’6-2’9 type of job which might be more reasonable. He used to do jumping at his old home but since he’s been doing more of like camps and beginner lessons so he’s a bit rusty, but still is actually really nice still. He still does lateral movements like leg yielding, shoulder in, etc. I dont know if that helps explain but he’s really more advanced than it seems, he has a ton of buttons, so im hoping we can do some local shows in a few months!!

[IPEsq]

How old is he? If he has some buttons and experience, then probably once you get him fit and flexible on the flat, the rest will start taking care of himself. He’s been in school pony mode. If he had an issue with jumping in the past such as confidence issues, that will also reveal itself, and hopefully your trainer can guide you into how to deal with it. Doesn’t sound like this will be the same process as starting a baby from scratch.

[Say_Goodnight_Gracie]

I would say the most important skills are bending and stride adjustment. Not sure if you can jump at your barn outside of lessons, but I know I couldn’t so I practiced counting strides next to our lines and adjusting for bigger and smaller, it’s good for your eye and for the horse.

[fivestrideline]

@julia.eq.h

He used to do jumping at his old home but since he’s been doing more of like camps and beginner lessons so he’s a bit rusty, but still is actually really nice still.

Okay, this is entirely different than starting a horse from scratch.

But the point still stands - clear up those expectations with the trainer and owner. How often to ride, how often he’s allowed to jump, how high he is allowed to jump, what division to aim him at, who is paying, etc. If he’s also being asked to work in w/t lessons, you will have to balance his workload and “sharpening” work against his job as a lesson horse. You’ll also need to keep an eye on his soundness - stiffness is likely normal, but sometimes it’s physical and asking him to work through it without maintenance may be unfair. This is where people in your situation often hit a wall - owner won’t/can’t spend the money or doesn’t see the problem since he’s fine for his “regular” job, but the horse can’t do what the rider wants because he needs hock injections or a fitting saddle or whatever.

Get him even in both reins and both legs with good flatwork. Do lots of hacking out, lots of walking, work on your transitions. Do pole work, practice adding and taking out strides between lines of poles (and coming back nicely to canter around the corner), make sure you and your trainer are on the same page. Getting him sharp to the aids can actually undermine his usefulness as a lesson horse, so really check in with the trainer and make sure you aren’t causing problems.

Again, as far as showing, you’ll need to talk to your trainer. They may be thinking of having you do Opportunity low hunter 2’ or whatever, while you’re thinking the Juniors or 2’9". A lot of lesson horses aren’t allowed to jump over 2’ or so in order to save their legs, so you need to nail that down. At 15.1 and pony type (Connemara), he could really go either way as far as stride and scope - a lot of those horses are rather catty and can be fast and careful, but need to add up to do it. But then a lot of them are surprisingly big strided and can do the horse step easily. YMMV

[dmveventer]

@fivestrideline

This. Definitely figure out expectations - how many rides a week, how often are you allowed to jump, can you jump outside lessons at all, etc. These can be barn rules AND need to be cleared with the owners.

Second this. Also consider that even if you are allowed to jump outside of lessons doesn’t make that a good idea, especially at first. With a green or out of practice horse every ride is going to have a big impact on their training - if you practice incorrectly on your own you’ll make your job much harder in the long run. This is true on the flat as well, make sure you really understand what correct flatwork feels like before you start asking for too much. As an example, you mention he does a lot of lateral work but also struggles to bend and move off your leg; you want to make sure he isn’t fudging the harder stuff and installing the wrong muscle memory.

Do some reading on dressage work to get some ideas for exercises you can do on your own. Drilling him on circles is going to be boring for both of you, but working in some more interesting exercises with targeted goals will help both of you advance in your flatwork.

Remember that learning how to train is a separate skill from learning how to ride. It may feel like you end up spending a lot of time on things that are “boring” compared to what you’ve been doing with other horses, but don’t rush! Your lessons will include a lot more focus on how to help the horse develop, and your trainer will be able to help you learn how to make your solo rides more productive.

[NaturallyHappy]

@dmveventer

Remember that learning how to train is a separate skill from learning how to ride

THIS x 1000. And so many don’t recognize it.

[julia.eq.h]

@fivestrideline

But the point still stands - clear up those expectations with the trainer and owner. How often to ride, how often he’s allowed to jump, how high he is allowed to jump, what division to aim him at, who is paying, etc.

Yes definitely. We’ve cleared it up (paying for shows, expectations, etc) and they said I can ride him as much as I want per week, just within reason. Given the time constraints and the fact that I show other horses, I think 2-3 times a week is good? Maybe?

Also just to clear it up, I don’t take lessons from them right now. I used to but I ride at a barn closer to home for lessons and shows. I’ve been involved with their barn since I was 4, either with lessons or helping with camp or riding their horses. I’m really close with the staff there, and they trust me because I’ve brought along a few greenies pretty well!

Do you think that’s good?

[fivestrideline]

@julia.eq.h

I think 2-3 times a week is good?

It depends. Is he being used for lessons still? How often? Basic w/t lessons aren’t particularly difficult for a horse, but you don’t want to make him sour. It also depends on what your owner’s goals are - if you want to go to horse shows and do a division or two, he’s going to need to be fit enough to do that happily. 3 days a week is probably a good start - just make sure you do some fitness work outside the ring as part of that.

I would also consider taking lessons on the horse, with whoever you’d be going to shows with. Once a week, or biweekly at the least. It’s a way to keep track of your progress and work on things you can’t do alone (it is very easy to create a stopper or ruin a change if you get in over your head or have a series of bad rides, and trust me you WILL have them!). It also prevents you from arriving at the show woefully unprepared or over facing the horse on accident.

If you’ve done greenies before, this thread should be pretty unsurprising. I really want to push you toward making a plan with the pro you use, as it is very easy to create problems for yourself if you aren’t careful. At the least, video your rides and keep a journal where you track what you did and how it went each day.

ETA: and remember to have fun!

[findeight]

Do you have anything in writing with the owners? How many other people are riding this horse? Consistency, same way every time from any rider, is what creates success. Otherwise anything you teach horse gets undone by every other rider who gets on him.

The big drawback with riding other peoples horses is owners often promise many things just to get the horse ridden without having to pay anybody and these things never come to pass hence the need for something in writing between owners and you or your parent if you are under 18.

I am not preaching or talking down to you, speaking from my own personal experience. Have had owners neglect needed vet work, skimp on farrier work, never fulfill show transportation promises, default on promises to pay anything towards lessons and even had one literally sell out from under me with no notice.

You can think a little more here or learn the hard way as I did. It is not your horse and owner can break any promises you think they made…and they will if it will cost them money.

Get something in writing to protect yourself from being used and discarded.

[dmveventer]

You should really have a trainer working with you on this horse to help you bring him back properly, at least once every week or so. Taking lessons elsewhere is no substitute for having experienced eyes on to help troubleshoot any issues that come up. Like I said above, you risk installing bad habits for both of you without someone checking your progress. This is true for everyone - even experienced riders get outside help! The types of questions you’re asking here suggest that you could really benefit from working with a trainer who can help you craft and execute a plan for this horse, and teach you the theory behind their decisions so you can tackle future green horses with more tools in your toolbox

@julia.eq.h

Given the time constraints and the fact that I show other horses, I think 2-3 times a week is good? Maybe

If you’ll be the only one riding him, or even just the only one asking him to work correctly, I don’t think this is enough to build up the fitness and consistency you’re looking for based on your stated goals. If he’s still being used in beginner lessons they’re likely going to be actively undoing the things you’re working on, and aren’t going to provide a ton of help getting an unfit horse back in shape. Some horses can maintain fitness on only 3 solid rides a week, but building fitness is probably going to require more.

[greysfordays]

@dmveventer

If you’ll be the only one riding him, or even just the only one asking him to work correctly, I don’t think this is enough to build up the fitness and consistency you’re looking for based on your stated goals. If he’s still being used in beginner lessons they’re likely going to be actively undoing the things you’re working on, and aren’t going to provide a ton of help getting an unfit horse back in shape. Some horses can maintain fitness on only 3 solid rides a week, but building fitness is probably going to require more.

I agree and adding on, maybe it’s worth having the vet just go over him briefly to make sure he’s sound enough for a step up in work and impact? I try to do this whenever I’m changing the demands on the horse to make sure their body can take it. He may need a little maintenance before taking on this new job.

[findeight]

Good point before you really get started with this horse, but only the owner can authorize a vet visit if they are willing to pay for it.

And, no, 2 or 3 times a week when other far less experienced riders may be riding him is not going to create a competitive Hunter. If nobody else is riding him 2-3 times a week not going to get him fit enough to do schooling, warm up and 2-3 rounds over fences and a hack per division even over 2’6” courses at a small show.

Venture to say most horses seriously preparing to show in Hunters get 3 days of serious, correct flatwork plus 2 days of some type of jumping exercises every week, anything from poles to low singles, related lines, grids etc. at some point, full courses do need to be practiced and lead changes worked in to both flat and over fences work. This would be a pretty typical schedule if aiming for show Hunters. Many older veterans long successful in the Hunter ring need far less but they always need correct flatwork and consistent riding when they do work.

[SillyHorse]

I see “bending” mentioned many times here, and sure, it’s important, but until you have established straightness, bending will not be easy. When you can ride straight down the long side of the arena, off the wall, like on the quarter line, that’s when you know you have control of the shoulders and haunches. That’s when you will be able to get the bend you want, because you need straightness in the bend. No bulging, no drifting, no displacement of the haunches, etc.

[mika0116]

Spot on. it reads that OP is a minor so I can see this situation becoming a bit of a user-like relationship. Camp / up down lesson pony and semi competitive even local county show hunter are very diverging things.