profit margins on pasture board vs stall board

[Lmabernathy]

I run a small pasture board and lesson program. Me and my farrier just shoot the breeze while holding horses and he keeps asking me when I going to build a fancy schmancy barn lol. He actually loves my set up unless its raining and then we reschedule because all the horses feet are wet. Anyway, I don’t think a barn would ever pay for its self with boarding in general, If I ever built anything it would be an enclosed arena with stalls attached and even then I doubt I would use the stalls daily, just seems like way too much work to clean stalls when there is a million other things I could be doing.

I am probably at the high end of my immediate are for pasture board because I do feed every day, separate into small groups, blanket, hold for the vet and farrier, fly control, deworm, basically everything but pay your vet and farrier bill (if I included that I bet I couldn’t beat them away with a stick lol).

In my area, stall board goes anywhere from the same price I charge for pasture board to max $450 more per horse for just boarding (not including training board). I personally don’t see how these barns stay in business much less ever actually pay off anything. That 450 more is a very top of the line dressage type barn with steel I beam indoor. Am I wrong? What am I not accounting for?

[NoSuchPerson]

Putting it in retail business terms, in those facilities, board is a loss-leader. It gets clients in the door to consume the products with a higher profit margin, like lessons, training, clinics, and special, extra services provided for fee.

[GoodTimes]

NoSuchPerson nailed it. I was an A circuit groom and BM for a barn with horses in Ontario and Ocala. Boarding does not make money. But once you have the clients you can charge for training, lessons, coaching at show, shipping, commissions on sales, etc.

Unless you’re a pro wanting to run a training/showing facility then pasture board will almost always be the most economical. Less staff, shavings, etc.

[gumtree]

Do you run this as your sole source of income? If so how many hours do work each week. If not how many hours “part time”. Do you have any employees? Do you pay/contract for repair and maintenance, mowing etc.

[Scribbler]

I can’t see that you will pay off the cost of a nice barn and indoor with increased board revenue. People buy or more likely lease these facilities ready built. If it’s at least $30,000 to build an indoor arena you’d never get that paid off.

Stalls do let you cram a lot more horses onto a given property if they don’t get much turnout.

I would continue as you are. The horses are happier this way.

If I had my own property ID have it set up for pasture life with a good run in shelter.

[clanter]

$450 for board now? I was paying $475 in 1991 which was reasonable for what we got but for the cost to be less twenty six years later is unreasonable.

That $475 in 1991 had the same purchasing power as $857.10 does now in 2017

[NoSuchPerson]

@clanter

$450 for board now? I was paying $475 in 1991 which was reasonable for what we got but for the cost to be less twenty six years later is unreasonable.

Well, it all depends on where you live. I’ve been contemplating moving and recently checked out boarding options/costs at 3 different places, from basic to fancy (indoor arena, etc.). Full board ranged from $350 to $500/month. That’s considerably cheaper than it is where I currently live for comparable amenities.

[Guilherme]

@Lmabernathy

I run a small pasture board and little program. Me and my farrier just shoot the breeze while holding horses and he keeps asking me when I going to build a fancy schmancy barn lol. He actually loves my set up unless its raining and then we reschedule because all the horses feet are wet. Anyway, I don’t think a barn would ever pay for its self with boarding in general, If I ever built anything it would be an enclosed arena with stalls attached and even then I doubt I would use the stalls daily, just seems like way too much work to clean stalls when there is a million other things I could be doing.

I am probably at the high end of my immediate are for pasture board because I do feed every day, separate into small groups, blanket, hold for the vet and farrier, fly control, deworm, basically everything but pay your vet and farrier bill (if I included that I bet I couldn’t beat them away with a stick lol).

In my area, stall board goes anywhere from the same price I charge for pasture board to max $450 more per horse for just boarding (not including training board). I personally don’t see how these barns stay in business much less ever actually pay off anything. That 450 more is a very top of the line dressage type barn with steel I beam indoor. Am I wrong? What am I not accounting for?

If by “pasture board” you mean fencing in land you already own and are responsible only to ensure water access and a secure fence line then it’s sort of like “free money.” If you start adding extras, like hay, run in sheds, and the like then you’re profit margin drops significantly.

When we did pasture board we charged for hay by upping the monthly board during the grazing months. I sometimes would get some “pushback” but when I explained what we did and why we were more expensive than some other places (who charge extra for hay) the clients were generally happy. But with pasture board horses if I touch the horse for the client’s benefit I would charge for the service.

Having a modest facility where you can set up out of the weather for the vet/farrier, deal with a sick or injured horse, dry them out prior to work, etc. is not a bad idea and would not likely be a “budget buster” in most places given that if you bring the horse to that facility you get paid.

The amateur/pleasure horse business around me has been in a serious decline for many years. That’s why board rates today are where they were 20 years ago except in a very few barns where the local moguls keep their horses. The exception is pasture board, which has kept better pace with inflation, if not actually beat it.

G.

[clanter]

@NoSuchPerson

Well, it all depends on where you live. I’ve been contemplating moving and recently checked out boarding options/costs at 3 different places, from basic to fancy (indoor arena, etc.). Full board ranged from $350 to $500/month. That’s considerably cheaper than it is where I currently live for comparable amenities.

what I was questioning is they are not charging enough to obtain a decent return (if any at all)… but then again those are the first people to complain about not making any money

[PlanB]

I have my own farm and I don’t offer boarding because I don’t see how anyone could make money doing it.

I see pasture board offered around me for basically what it costs me to keep my horses at home. Why anyone would want the hassle of dealing with the people for those prices, I’ll never understand ! lol!

But I factor in my time when I do the math in my head. Kind of like knitting. If I’m knitting for myself or I’m knitting to give as a gift, that’s one thing. But I know that no one is going to pay me a reasonable rate to do it as a business.

[seabreeze]

I’m boarding one horse now. I figured the only way I could make money (or just cover some expenses for my own two) was to charge a flat fee for the stall that includes bedding, deworming, and fly spray. Boarder provides her own feed and pays 1/3 of hay and alfalfa pellets. And, when the college student boarder is home from college, she will take care of horses if I want to go away to a show or on a vacation (ha!) in exchange for a reduction in her board. This is working well for both of us so far.

If I were to charge a full board fee, the price I would have to charge just to cover my expenses would be much higher than the going rate for “backyard barn” facilities in my area. I honestly don’t know how boarding barns stay in business.

[StormyDay]

OP I don’t live too far from you and i can assure you there are places near you that are paying a lot more than 450$ for board (if your location is up to date) I looked at moving to the area and was quoted anywhere from 450$ for more basic board to 1200$ for the fancy indoor with all the extras.

[Janet]

@clanter

$450 for board now? I was paying $475 in 1991 which was reasonable for what we got but for the cost to be less twenty six years later is unreasonable.

That $475 in 1991 had the same purchasing power as $857.10 does now in 2017

$450 is the DIFFERENCE between her board and the high end board.

[SnicklefritzG]

Knitting is a great example. I have a side business making hand dyed yarn and roving. I also do some knitting professionally, but mostly for heirloom type items such as a Christening set. People are willing to pay a fair price for something that becomes a treasured family item. On the other hand, things like socks, and hats, end up being more expensive than most people are willing to pay. A pair of socks with a bit of patterning can easily be $80-100+ if I pay myself at least minimum wage.

I think the analogy works for boarding in general.

@PlanB

I have my own farm and I don’t offer boarding because I don’t see how anyone could make money doing it.

I see pasture board offered around me for basically what it costs me to keep my horses at home. Why anyone would want the hassle of dealing with the people for those prices, I’ll never understand ! lol!

But I factor in my time when I do the math in my head. Kind of like knitting. If I’m knitting for myself or I’m knitting to give as a gift, that’s one thing. But I know that no one is going to pay me a reasonable rate to do it as a business.

[OneTwoMany]

@NoSuchPerson

Board is a loss-leader. It gets clients in the door to consume the products with a higher profit margin, like lessons, training, clinics, and special, extra services provided for fee.

I wish every boarder would read this and know that it is true.

[Lmabernathy]

Haha, I think a few people misunderstood me, I didn’t mean board was 450. I meant board was up to $450 more than what I charge for pasture board and some stall board is the exact same price I charge for pasture board. That’s all true in a 15 mile radius of me. If I were to go closer to the city it would be much more expensive than that, but I’m not moving anywhere and no one that lives in the 15 mile radius of me is going to pay that much for board or at least not enough people to fill up a good sized boarding barn.

I board and teach lessons as my sole source of income, I do have a regular mortgage on my home, expensive commercial insurance, all the incidental (power, internet, additional lighting, etc) I mow the grass, bush hog the fields, drag the paddocks and arena, spray fertilizer and weed killer, I can fix the fence and have built a lot of it from scratch too, I pickup the feed and sometimes the hay is delivered sometimes I haul 15,000 lb of hay home myself. I’m basically a one woman show. My boyfriend will put out the hay with the tractor but that’s more because the metal feeders weigh too much for me to stand up by myself. I feed everyday and have that down to a science. I can feed 15 horses in 6 separate paddocks in about 35 mins (45 mins if I have to dump and refill water troughs). Only 7 horses get fed twice a day and I can feed them in about 15 mins since all their supplements are given in the mornings. I am efficient though, any time anyone else does it, they take at least twice as long if not 3 times more time to do the same amount of chores. That makes the horses cranky and then they are harder to deal with. That’s why I do most everything. Horses are happier and I have a better eye for unusual behavior since I do it everyday. The majority of my income comes from lessons though. I have 10 lesson horses out of those 15 total horses.

I do about 15 hours a week in lessons (lots of group lessons) and lets say 7 hours a week feeding, dragging all the paddocks takes an hour, everything else varies. I’ve had plenty of 16 hour days and if its raining I might only have to feed but I am also not making any income besides board those days either.

[Palm_Beach]

@Lmabernathy - what exactly is your question? Do you want to know, on average, whether or not the profit margin from stall boarding is higher than pasture boarding? Or whether or not you should build a $30,000 barn? The barn improves the property, so even if it doesn’t “pay for itself” you’ve increased the value of your property. As others have pointed out, are you factoring the cost of your time?

[Lmabernathy]

Just if a barn will ever pay for itself or actually produce income? I don’t see how it really could at least not in my area. We don’t even have that many rainy days. Its not going to produce significantly more income than pasture boarding and to have a barn suitable for a boarding barn I feel like it would have to be at least 10 stalls if not closer to 20 stalls to produce any income at all. I think the property value thing is a wash too. We tried to put my farm up for sell 10 years ago and the only nibbles were contractors wanting to tear everything down and build homes, I doubt that has changed.

Just curious if anyone has made money by building a barn or is it just a convenience for them to use?

[candyappy]

In your climate you could do the prefab barns. We had one in CA. !t was a 20 stall pipe stall barn with attached paddocks ( what they called a mare motel) . They were 12X24. 10 stalls on each side very wide isle way.

If your horses have shelter in their turnouts and everything is going well, I wouldn’t change a thing. All you would do is add to YOUR work load and budget. Cleaning stalls and bedding costs.

[StormyDay]

@Lmabernathy

Haha, I think a few people misunderstood me, I didn’t mean board was 450. I meant board was up to $450 more than what I charge for pasture board and some stall board is the exact same price I charge for pasture board. That’s all true in a 15 mile radius of me. If I were to go closer to the city it would be much more expensive than that, but I’m not moving anywhere and no one that lives in the 15 mile radius of me is going to pay that much for board or at least not enough people to fill up a good sized boarding barn.

I board and teach lessons as my sole source of income, I do have a regular mortgage on my home, expensive commercial insurance, all the incidental (power, internet, additional lighting, etc) I mow the grass, bush hog the fields, drag the paddocks and arena, spray fertilizer and weed killer, I can fix the fence and have built a lot of it from scratch too, I pickup the feed and sometimes the hay is delivered sometimes I haul 15,000 lb of hay home myself. I’m basically a one woman show. My boyfriend will put out the hay with the tractor but that’s more because the metal feeders weigh too much for me to stand up by myself. I feed everyday and have that down to a science. I can feed 15 horses in 6 separate paddocks in about 35 mins (45 mins if I have to dump and refill water troughs). Only 7 horses get fed twice a day and I can feed them in about 15 mins since all their supplements are given in the mornings. I am efficient though, any time anyone else does it, they take at least twice as long if not 3 times more time to do the same amount of chores. That makes the horses cranky and then they are harder to deal with. That’s why I do most everything. Horses are happier and I have a better eye for unusual behavior since I do it everyday. The majority of my income comes from lessons though. I have 10 lesson horses out of those 15 total horses.

I do about 15 hours a week in lessons (lots of group lessons) and lets say 7 hours a week feeding, dragging all the paddocks takes an hour, everything else varies. I’ve had plenty of 16 hour days and if its raining I might only have to feed but I am also not making any income besides board those days either.

I definitely misread that lol. I was wondering where the 450$ for an indoor arena board was! I was comin over there haha. Sorry