Proper Bit Fit

[Jeepgirl311]

Can someone point me to a good article or video on ensuring proper bit fit? I recently purchased my first horse and she has some head tossing issues that have me wondering if she has the correct/best bit. How do you figure out if they need a thicker or thinner mouthpiece, or one with multiple breaks or none? Just trial and error? That seems like a really long road to go down, and potentially pricey. Any advice would be great!

FYI she currently goes in a 3-ring french link at home, although when my trainer takes her in the bigger classes at a show she often goes in a hackabit with a straight rubber mouthpiece. She can get spicy at the shows, although when I take her in the baby jumpers I keep her in my 3-ring french link. The head shaking isn’t alarming enough to be a big issue, and may just be related to her greenness, I just want to make sure I am exploring all options here.

Thanks!

[4LeafCloverFarm]

Fit is one thing, type of bit/mouthpiece is another. For fit/sizing, you can try something like this:

https://www.doversaddlery.com/bitsizer/p/X1-038/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA-c_iBRChARIsAGCOpB2Nc8OgiB7hWDyvvQIjuYL5lJ7NU4t62gA5fRuuqxYzdMaDoMaUupkaAmOHEALw_wcB

[MegBackInSaddle]

Unfortunately, some of it is just trial and error. There’s a lot of info out there about what makes bits harsher or gentler. But there seems to be a good bit of pony preference within the generalizations. I’m slowly putting together a snaffle collection. Mine doesn’t head toss, she ewes out at the walk and gets rushed. So far, we keep coming back to the eggbutt French link. A friend who lets you borrow bits is golden!

[JB]

It really is a lot of trial and error as to both the mouth piece and the cheek piece.

The mouth piece should be high enough to not interfere with the incisors (or canines if there are any), and low enough to not interfere with the first premolars even with some normal play of the tongue. It’s that sweet spot along the bars. Then however many wrinkles in the corners of the lips that makes, is however many it makes, and that may very well change with different bits. So that’s the first thing - it’s all based on the internal structures, not aiming for X number of wrinkles.

The cheek piece should have a little play at the corners - you don’t want the bit too small and constantly putting inward pressure on the mouth, or too big that there’s too much sliding room. And you definitely don’t want it small enough that it could pinch.

How old is she? Does she have wolf teeth?

It is a little concerning that as a greenie, she’s going in a 3-ring anything just at home. How long has she been under saddle? Is there a reason she’s in a 3-ring? Which ring are the reins attached to?

Head tossing - when does she do it, and how does it look? Has her saddle been properly fitted? Not all head tossing is about the bit. Too much hand really annoys some horses, too much hand with a green mouth with a leverage bit can be confusing, poll issues can cause problems when there is the “wrong” contact, saddle fit issues can become apparent, or made worse, when asked to do certain things.

[goodhors]

With JB here, get her mouth checked for wolf teeth, sharp places that can hurt with bit pressure. I have not seen a young horse without wolf teeth in a great many years. They are movable, if the bit touches them it can be painful down in the gums, so the head flies up to avoid the contact. Wolf teeth can be very tiny, down under gums in frit of first molars. Other wolf teeth are huge, as big as your little finger!

A Vet or horse Dentist should check her out, pull any wolf teeth, rasp off sharp places, before investing in new bits.

[Jeepgirl311]

Thanks for the input! To answer a few questions:

She is 8 and the head shaking is primarily only one course, after a fence, and it is not all the time. It is not even most of the time, although when I first got her 9 months ago it was a lot more of the time - it is really only if she is amped up. Which is why I think it may be related to her greenness. And when I say green, I don’t mean total green-bean. She has successfully competed in the 1.25m at rated shows for the past 2 years. But she is a little complicated and is still learning self-carriage and balance and straightness.

As for the 3-ring, I ride on the second ring, not the 3rd. I have a plain eggbutt snaffle I can try her in, she just had been going happily in the 3-ring when I bought her so that’s what I kept her in.

She just had her teeth done a few weeks ago, I will ask about the wolf teeth.

Thanks again!

[JB]

@Jeepgirl311

And when I say green, I don’t mean total green-bean. She has successfully competed in the 1.25m at rated shows for the past 2 years. But she is a little complicated and is still learning self-carriage and balance and straightness.

Fully realizing that all these things are pretty subjective, so what you mean isn’t necessarily how I interpret it. But, I would expect a horse who has done rated 1.25m courses for 2 years to be pretty well in control of self-carriage and balance, at least for what is expected of that level and even just a bit higher. She should be able to put in a very solid 2nd Level Dressage test. So, this may be an issue where she is actually a bit over-faced just because she’s talented enough she can get by, but she’s not really solidly ready for that.

As for the 3-ring, I ride on the second ring, not the 3rd. I have a plain eggbutt snaffle I can try her in, she just had been going happily in the 3-ring when I bought her so that’s what I kept her in.

She just had her teeth done a few weeks ago, I will ask about the wolf teeth.

Thanks again!

A lot of vets pop out wolf teeth when colts are gelded, and I’m not sure what’s typical with fillies, but definitely look to see. Unless they are “blind wolf teeth”, below the gum surface, they are easy to see, they are literally right there in front of those premolars, usually little things, other times much more obvious, like goodhors said. So you can see them if they erupted. If not, they are more likely to have been taken out, than be blind, but don’t negate the idea they can be right under the surface.

I honestly would go to a simple snaffle, no leverage at all (which is what the 2nd ring is), try something like a Myler Comfort Snaffle which is a “straight” bar (it’s really curved/angled to follow the mouth better), that swivels, so there’s no folding onto the bars. My mare doesn’t seem to like all the movement of a double-jointed, much preferring the Comfort Snaffle style.

[IPEsq]

Part of the experiment is thickness and part is where pressure is applied.

One thing to ask is how different is the thickness between the show bit and the home bit? Obviously show bit (hackabit) uses different pressure points on the head as well as in the mouth.

Some dont like poll pressure, which you are getting with the 3 ring. While the rule of thumb is thinner bits are harsher, I disagree for the horse whose mouth cannot accommodate a thick bit. Then there are some that like a big, fat hollow mouth or rubber or leather bit.

Single joint, mullen, and double jointed bits will all put pressure in different places in the mouth. Some of the double jointed bits that have more curve to the mouth will engage pressure points on the tongue more than on the bars which may be the case for other types of double jointed bits.

For one one that is head tossing, I’d be less inclined to go with something with any more lift than you’ve got. Perhaps switch to more curb action at the chin considering how she seems to do with nose pressure. I’d experiment more with the mouthpiece first. If your trainer has a bit collection, that is a good place to start, but some companies allow trial bits or bit returns. If the size of what you can borrow isn’t perfect I wouldn’t worry too much so long as there isn’t pinching or rubbing.

[Simkie]

You might also consider trying her in a Micklem style bridle. I have one mare who DETESTS movement in the bit–she needs it steady steady steady–and she goes best in a micklem with an eggbutt cheek on the bit. A boucher with a flash noseband is second best. A loose ring myler is her nightmare.

So sometimes it’s not even the mouthpiece but the bridle and cheeks on the bit.

Something else that might be worth trying for you would be a pelham. An unjointed pelham with a mild port offers a TON of stability, with room for the tongue, and you get a lot of options as a rider with that bit and two reins. I’d far prefer to ride a horse in that setup than an elevator–so many more avenues for finesse and communication.

[Bluey]

Also try a hole up or down on the side cheek pieces of the bridle.

Does she shake her head with the trainer also?

Plenty of horses will shake their heads, some before a jump, some after, some in the turns and generally is a horse’s way to show impatience, or a nervous rider’s handsy habits here and there, understandable in those situations, that a trainer should watch for and work the student past those.

There are so many possible reasons for that, good that you ask, so you will have more to go by to try.

As others have said, you just have to keep trying, is what horse training is all about.
Every horse and rider and situation is enough different to require different approaches.

Good luck remedying that quirk.
It can interfere with your and your horse’s concentration.

[Jeepgirl311]

I really appreciate all your advice! So many good things to consider. Off to see what different types of bits I can scrounge up around the barn to try!

[shayaalliard]

Another consideration is that the ring bits have gag action- though less on second ring than bottom-
anyway, gag action asks the horse to raise it’s head, poke out the nose and hollow it’s back-

if shes head shaking I think I’d want a simple snaffle, or if you must have leverage, curb action like a kimberwicke or pelham, which asks the head to lower and nose to come in

My rushy little jumper mare goes well in a myler kimberwicke to jump, and the same mouth on a snaffle to flat.

When I was working on reeducating her I used the same bit with the pelham shank and double reins-so I could ask with the snaffle rein then enforce with the curb if needed.

[JB]

The purpose of a gag or 3-ring (on the 2nd or 3rd ring) is to put pressure on the poll to keep the head low(er) than the horse wants to put it, so there is better capturing of the energy from behind - the opposite of raised head, poked out nose, and hollowed back. Of course that doesn’t always work, there are horses who definitely invert, but that is the intended use - more correct movement, not less.

Another thought for this horse without any extra equipment is to put another set of reins on the snaffle ring and ride just off that and see what happens. Use the 2nd ring for correction if needed, but try to avoid it. That will give you some idea whether it’s the mouthpiece, or the fact that that particular bit (mouthpiece and all) is being used as a leverage bit.