I agree. And I was being facetious 
I can walk him all day long under saddle. He doesn’t want to march along on his own accord most days. He travels hollow to the right and bulging through the left shoulder. We are supposed to be trotting by now at least 10 minutes a day in straight lines. He acts out less and less but it’s never ideal. I usually try and pay attention to if he starts swishing his tail and then I bring him back to reestablish relaxation. His vet says there will be some discomfort in this but to keep on going. I’ve sent her all the videos of what he does and she says to keep going anyways so as to develop fitness and that the limbs need controlled exercise. I always worry that he’s going to be hurt worse by this need to “carry on”
Yeah, you’re definitely in a tough spot there. Sorry that you’re dealing with this. I hope that the next vet appointment generates some useful information. I’m curious myself, so I do want to follow this thread. The gelding scars bit is interesting in itself.
Agree x3. Also, I’d be finding a new vet if mine who recommended increasing trot work on a horse that’s still lame from a suspensory injury, which this horse is from the videos. And even more so when the vet green lights increasing work without a follow up ultrasound to know what the fiber pattern and size of the ligament looks like with the level of work. (I realize a second US was just done but that’s not my point). Big vet clinic or not this contradicts standard rehab protocol for soft tissue injuries.
The 24 behaviors of the ridden horse in pain
Y’all. This is the story of my life. 
I did the equitopia course on the ethogram a year or so ago. This is exactly what I have been trying to explain to my vet even though it’s the same diagnosis and likely the same outcome. It’s very defeating and I think we all grasp for hope wherever we can find it. It’s a unique experience when a 16-year-old horse, having had a full career and life, receives this diagnosis, while my 5-year-old, who never had the opportunity to begin, feels like it’s already over.
He is meticulously cared for, fed amazingly, managed amazingly, had a professional start, his own farrier he had access to 24/7, and an owner (me) that has spared no expense in ensuring he is developed properly. This is some seriously bad luck.
I’m so so sorry. I have a NQR 11yo that’s been NQR for most of that. It really sucks and I’m sympathetic.
I would, however, take that pain behaviors thing with a huge grain of salt - it’s good stuff but a bit more doomsday than I think is warranted and without a great control group. However, your horse is definitely uncomfortable and trying to tell you, but it’s so hard cause they can’t tell you WHERE.
My NQR horse went a lot like yours, though his suspensory was a front and was caused by a specific event + bad farrier. He’s got extensive kissing spine and suspected neck/SI issues that I’m chasing with a fabulous vet. He requires special shoes despite going very well barefoot - he just can’t tolerate even the slightest imbalance or discomfort. I say all this just to tell you that I commiserate, and I doubt there’s a magic bullet. However, extended turnout + monthly bodywork + a good farrier did WONDERS for my horse. Get the next vet to image the spine, and then kick the horse out is my advice.
Good luck OP.
It’s so frustrating when you feel like you’re not being heard, or even when you feel like no one but you is listening to your horse.
Horses can be absolutely heartbreaking. You can take the best care of them and it can still all blow up in your face at any given moment. It just really reminds me to appreciate the good times. Again, so sorry you’re going through this, OP.
Seriously big hugs to you. I really hope this isn’t the case for your boy. I went through this 8-9 years ago with my then 5 yr old with a stifle issue we couldn’t resolve. He is not in daily pain and does great on pasture, just doesn’t hold up to work. So, he’s outdoor boarded and loved up on lots. He taught me to let go of ego and showing and what I wanted and to just love. It was a grueling process. He is awfully cute like your boy and worth keeping around for reasons other than riding 
I ended up focusing on my older guy until he passed away this past September. I have a 5 yr old now and really have no goals but to just ride him and enjoy him however that looks.
Sending lots of jingles and healing thoughts and that the sports med vet has some good insight for you.
Is the vet denying further diagnostics because they read you as inexperienced and/or in denial about your PSD diagnosis? I could call my vet and get x-rays of anything I wanted tomorrow, zero context needed. It’s really disappointing to hear your experience there. Is there something missing in the client/vet relationship we aren’t privy to?
Why hasn’t anyone in your circle pulled you aside to let you know you were riding a lame horse for years? Your horse was categorically lame in June. It’s time to develop your eye since your circle cannot be trust to know what is a sound horse or not. This is a must-have skill for anyone owning a horse.
I’m confused about your most recent vet visit - if he was not sound in a circle, how were you having issues replicating this undersaddle? That’s one of his symptoms. You provided a video from October that is consistent with his lameness undersaddle from all other videos you’ve shared.
The vet is not suggesting coffin bone injections because of joint spacing. They are likely advising it because they have traced part of his unsoundness/discomfort to the foot and/or the sole. Bute and Previcox are not going to address whatever is going on inside the hoof as well. I understand the vet’s line of thinking there. Coffin bone injections are not uncommon, though like everything (including bute) not without risks.
Some of your posts come across as in denial and/or inexperienced and young. The next step of your journey isn’t chasing zebra diagnoses and ignoring what is confirmable (PSD diagnosis). It’s figuring out what caused the PSD (riding? shoeing? genetics? neuro disorder?), figuring out how to manage it including therapies like shoes and/or injections, and adjusting all other management factors around it. You’ve had a lot of great advice and experienced posters in this thread - including those with the same diagnosis as your horse.
The lameness has been subtle off and on and sometimes shows up as a gait abnormality where the right hind has a short cranial phase. From the beginning I felt like something was wrong and EVERYONE dismissed it because he was young, so it must be his lack of strength. The first vet I took him to didn’t see it. The second vet saw it with nerve blocking. What I mean by I can’t reproduce his lameness without riding him is because I’m not talking about his leg. I’m talking about how tense and protective of his lumbar area he is and how it causes tail swishing, ear pinning, and bucking. It’s like he has no range of motion in his pelvis. That specifically is something I can’t manufacture when he is standing there being physically evaluated. He is not reactive to anything on physical examination, I would have to ride him in order to demonstrate that but I have sent her the videos of him acting like that under saddle.
So no, I’m not young or inexperienced. I’ve been written off and gaslit this entire time. It took 2 whole years for someone to believe me that there was a physical problem. The advice I was given was to send him to a cowboy, to sell him to someone with young horse experience, and to keep developing his strength in the hind end. My horse is more lame now than before I even took him to this vet.
I’d like all the USEA judges to answer that for me too when he won those classes and nobody was able to point out that he was lame. 
It is beyond frustrating to know that your horse isn’t right and have professionals tell you that it’s just behavioral and to push through it. I hope that the new sports medicine vet has some answers for you.
So I think we covered this already, and the horse has no images done of his back, right? I really wouldn’t be surprised if he has kissing spine. I couldn’t see that was ruled out, but I might’ve missed it.
Correct. No images of his back. Current vet said she is able to feel space between the vertebrae in his back.
I’d still want imaging though. I’ve not had anyone ever diagnose by feel before, personally. I’d want to x-ray as concrete evidence. I’d just say that I’m not doubting their abilities, but please just humor me.
I’ve just seen quite a few cases where KS and PSD have both been present, so I wouldn’t be surprised if one influences the other.
I can’t think of a vet who hasn’t ever entertained my requests, but I know that’s just my experience and a small sample size. I’ve called up my vet before and said, “Hey, I need an ultrasound on a leg because I suspect a soft tissue injury and swelling has gone down enough to do some imaging I think.” or “Horse isn’t quite right, can we do xyz?” I mean, if it’s not invasive, outlandish, and I’m paying them for it, I’m not sure why they’d say no, but I’m not a vet so I don’t know all of the details behind their train of thought.
I mean, they’ll do all sorts of imaging on a horse during a PPE, no questions asked, generally. I guess they see a “purpose” there, but it’s not like you’re saying, “My horse is healthy and fine, I just think it would be cool to have a x-ray of his spine to hang in my office.” 
even then though, there’s probably a vet out there that might entertain that 
I agree. My wife (his farrier) wasn’t able to come with me this time but she was very upset at how it was going and told me to just stop and come home because we are both tired of taking him 3 hours just to be written off. She felt like she was going to come up with something to appease me and waste my money some more. When the vet wasn’t in the room I made sure to tell all those students that this horse is not normal. It’s pain. And horses aren’t just wimps or lack grit and resilience for no reason. Sure, some horses internalize more but he is not one of them.
I’m trying to frame this gently, because I do feel for your position while also recognizing there are some things at play we’re not aware of. The burden for developing your eye is on you as an owner, too. You’re halfway there because you know something is not right, and that is good - but you also thought the June and October videos were of a sound horse, so you have some learning to do.
I’m a believer in servicably sound. Not every horse is going to have flawless movement or a cooperative body their whole life. A horsewoman understands that most horses fall in the middle of the soundness spectrum and most owners will do what they can to make Dobbin happy. Pros are not always going to be the first to whistleblow on a lame horse, because their income is generated by presumably sound horses in training or lessons, clinics, or shows. However, there is a big difference between a horse moving like this at four and five, versus sixteen or seventeen after a long career.
It’s time to ditch the local vets and take this horse to a vet school/clinic specializing in sport horse lameness, if you are serious about pursuing the “why” of the PSD. PSD is not a pasture injury. It is most often associated with genetics, improper trimming, and unaddressed injuries or discomforts like KS or DSLD.
I’ve also seen lame horses out competing and no one, aside from some members of the audience, seemed to take note. I think there are a variety of reasons for that, really.
I never said he was sound at the June show and in October. I said the June show was an example of his peak level of fitness. Even when he is fit and the bucking stops (which reinforced to me that it was a strength issue) he is still not competitive because he can’t keep the rails up in stadium. Why? Because he has no range of motion in his pelvis. You know what else reinforced to me that it was a strength issue? Because that June show, he won the dressage in a class of 12 horses.
The clip from October was before his diagnosis after he was only back under saddle for about 3 weeks after being turned out for 7 weeks not ridden due to a wall resection. He was able to canter that day without bucking.
He is not at a local vet. A local vet is not 3 hours away. This is Texas A&M University Large Animal Hospital with the orthopedic specialist.
The first vet I took him to that dismissed us and sent us home only with confidence EQ and Zesterra was a professor of sports medicine lameness and surgery at Texas Tech University.
The vet that did his PPE was Dr. Honnas at Texas Equine.
My issue with his soundness in the beginning was related to why is he bucking and pig rooting at the canter? It wasn’t until October that I was able to see the gait abnormality that I cannot feel under saddle when it’s that subtle. My wife has been seeing it for a long time. The cowboy I was speaking to and considering sending him to after peer pressure even said his right hind wasn’t right (and I never took him to a cowboy). He passed his PPE with flying colors but I bought him as an unstarted 3 year old. Yes it is on me to recognize lameness, but judges shouldn’t be rewarding lame horses with 1st place either. Glad they did away with the FEH program in all honesty.
He has never been injured and has never had a scratch on him since I bought him.
Texas A&M blew you off for spinal X-rays? Not that they didn’t suggest them, but didn’t do them when you asked? That’s shocking. I believe you, but I’m used to the vet schools being THRILLED to do all the diagnostics the owner will greenlight.
Right?! And if I would have listened to the first vet last February I would have never taken him to Texas A&M either. So I trust myself when I say “this isn’t all there is wrong.” I honestly don’t get it. My horse has wanted for nothing, had always received top quality care, started correctly with a GP Dressage trainer, top quality equipment and well fitted saddles, healthy diet, coached by a USDF Gold Medalist. I have done my part. I have paid my dues and all the money that I have to get to the bottom of this and I still haven’t gotten reimbursed by his insurance.
