PSA ... manure piles that combust in this incredible heat we are having ...

[TrueColours]

Friends of mine just had a manure pile combust yesterday during the high heat / non existent rain we have been having for the last 7-8 weeks.

The manure pile was close to one of their barns, the barn also caught fire and the winds were blowing the flames through the barn

SO fortunate this all happened in the middle of the day when everyone was around and not away at a show, and they got all animals out including barn kitties, pigs, etc and I believe all/most of the equipment as well. Two local fire stations also were able to respond quickly and everyone rallied that was local to them and did whatever needed to be done to minimize the impact as much as possible

I had never heard of a manure pile combusting before but I guess the conditions were perfect for it to do so in this case … and being in close proximity to a barn as many are, just made it worse …

We were all so glad to hear not a single life was lost and all things considered, they were very fortunate indeed …

[Hermein]

WOW! I’ve not heard of that before. Here, hay stacks self combust–we’re in triple digits, but are kind of used to it…heat, crappy air, suffering horses and other creatures. Lots of lethargy.

Glad that all lives were saved.

[findeight]

Oh, yeah. Doesn’t have to be that hot out either. Decay inside the pile generates heat that often steams but in certain circumstances can ignite. Moldy hay deep inside a bale can get hot as well. Rare but it does happen, seen about 20 tons of baled alfalfa mix go up. Fortunately the storage was away from anything else that was combustible. It was a dairy farm next to the breeding farm I was working PT at for about 5 min many moons ago.

Yet another reason to keep things clean, stored properly and to get rid of rotting hay and not let the manure sit in great piles. That’s why we spread it.

[Night_Flight]

Yep, and the really scary part is that they can burn underground.

I was at a barn a few years ago that had the manure pile behind the indoor arena (separated by a narrow strip of forest) and then beyond that behind another strip of forest was the outdoor riding ring.

We went out to ride one day and one horse just went nuts not wanting to go past the section of the ring closest to the manure pile. Eventually I spotted a tiny plume of smoke rising from the ground beside the ring. Finished the ride, got off the horses, went back to investigate and discovered that the ground was starting to blacken in that area and it was HOT.

We notified the BOs and they got a big tractor driven over, and they discovered upon digging that the fire was burning underground and had spread from the manure heap to just beside the riding ring. It wasn’t burning through the debris on top, but actually underground (a pit about 10 feet deep needed to be dug to put out the fire).

We were so lucky that it went in that direction rather than towards the arena/barn, and that the one horse was sensitive enough to smoke that he alerted us to it. Very scary what can happen invisibly.

[imaginique]

Every time I move my manure pile I come across ashes where it has burned inside, and sometimes it is still smoking.

[Foxtrot_s]

That is the worry when there are fires on peat bogs (here in the PNW lower mainland of Vancouver).

Recently had Burns Bog catch and it was very difficult to put out because of smouldering underground. Fortunately had heavy rains recently which helped. Same as when there was a fire in the UBC Endowment lands at the University… took ages before it stopped popping up.

Are there not underground fires in the Appalachians in the coal mines that have burned for 100 years? (Did I make that up?)

[blue_phlox_farm]

Yes, there was and still is an underground coal vein fire in Centralia PA. It was started accidentally by burning on a landfill next to an open pit mine. That was in the early 60’s. Everyone in the town sold their homes to the state, except for a few holdouts. Very strange to drive through the town now and see empty lots on block after block where houses once stood, then see a lone house here or there. You can even see the smoke coming up out of cracks in the ground.

Hey, sorry about the history lesson, but I thought you all might like to hear about it.

[digihorse]

Oh yeah… manure piles were the best back “in the day” to park the old Model T on so it would start on a cold morning. So said my mother. We always found ash in ours when we went digging for worms.

[Foxtrot_s]

Love history lessons! Refreshing change from some of the threads. We live in such a new part of the world up here, some of you have a lot of history in your very homes where you live, or your families have lived for several generations.

Then in Europe where I am more familiar, there is centuries of history.

[S1969]

It’s probably more than just hot weather that creates a perfect storm; it probably was wet weather, followed by hot and dry.

We’ve been so dry here that my manure/compost piles are dehydrating and not composting. When I turn them, they are just dry and not composting at all. But if you had a couple of really wet days, or a wet week, and then followed that with dry, hot weather – the outside of the pile could be dry like tinder, while the inside is cooking up really hot.

Flipping piles is good for making compost, but it also cools down the center. So…maybe we should all flip our manure this weekend!

And of course, keeping your big manure piles far away from the barn is always a good idea.

[csaper58]

If the pile can’t be flipped, maybe put a sprinkler on it to give it a good soak? A wet manure pile may steam but it probably won’t combust.

[JLR1]

This is scary to me! And actually one of several reasons I am moving from a barn that recently became a drop point for large semi’s to drop manure from local ranches to then be sold to farmers. The pile is massive and next to the hay shed so I’m not sticking around.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=JLR1;8748272]
This is scary to me! And actually one of several reasons I am moving from a barn that recently became a drop point for large semi’s to drop manure from local ranches to then be sold to farmers. The pile is massive and next to the hay shed so I’m not sticking around.[/QUOTE]

You might not have anything to worry about; depends on how old the manure is. Fresh manure and bedding is what is most likely to get hot. If it’s old and being sold as compost it might not still be “cooking”. My old compost piles have worms in them; they are not hot at all.

[ChocoMare]

I remember back in the late 70’s-ish, a shedrow barn at Belmont Race Track went up on flames, 8 horses dead–all due to a manure / straw pile that was too close to the barn and never turned/watered. It spontaneously combusted and the barn was gone.

Your pile should be quite a distance from any building, turned frequently. Best if you can keep it covered with 10 mil plastic sheeting to help it compost down and not self-combust.

[Foxtrot_s]

But the heat does kill any worm eggs before being spread.

[digihorse]

[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;8748782]
But the heat does kill any worm eggs before being spread.[/QUOTE]

Wrong type of worms if referring to post by S1969. They are referring to earth worms… which love compost/manure piles.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=digihorse;8749018]
Wrong type of worms if referring to post by S1969. They are referring to earth worms… which love compost/manure piles.[/QUOTE]

Yes, definitely.

Well managed composted manure would be hot enough to kill parasitic worms and larvae, but not hot enough to combust…somewhere there is a perfect temperature. Flipping and watering helps. When it is done composting, even large piles are not warm on the inside. My old ones have earthworms living in them, which is how I know it’s perfect for gardens.

So the post about big piles of manure being sold - it might be done composting, and therefore be perfectly safe. But even small piles of fresh manure can get really hot - especially those that have a lot of wet bedding included. I don’t use shavings because it’s terrible for compost. I wonder if they are more likely to combust than other forms of bedding? (I use wood pellets because the amount added to the manure piles is substantially smaller than other types of bedding.)

[goodhors]

We had a manure pile combust years ago. It wasn’t even that big of a pile. It smoldered/burned for 3 days, even with watering it down. Conditions were just right to make it happen. Didn’t burn anything but the manure, pile was out in a field, no real flames, but our small hose and water volume were not enough to put it out.

We spread daily since then, no manure piles at all. Better for the land, no fly attraction, no CHANCE of dirty bedding self-combusting. We used straw bedding at the time, this was way back before wood products got turned into bedding.

With spreading, manure is handled once, a big time saver. I empty the spreader daily, which greatly extends the life of spreader chains, floor, not rusting under urine bedding. And SOMETIMES that dirty bedding in the spreader can get really hot too! Folks who don’t spread daily have come out to a smoking spreader, need to empty it quickly or BAD things will happen. Yes, this can happen with woody product bedding too. Not just a straw bedding issue. I have seen and pointed at the bedding smoke at a friends farm, told them to get going to spread that load or the spreader would catch fire!

Some Old Wive’s Tales are truth based, even as silly as they sound. Combustion is one of them when it comes to green, wet hay and manure piles. They do start fires! This is among the reasons using manure piles for disposal of livestock carcasses is now allowed. The high heat inside the piles is going to reduce the carcass to nothing in a relatively short time, with no side effect to the land. Heat kills the weed seeds in the process of turning into compost.

Me? I will stick with my daily manure spreading, think of it as adding organic matter to the dirt, which dirt can always use, especially my clay soil. Not have to worry about fires in the manure pile.

[JLR1]

[QUOTE=S1969;8748371]
You might not have anything to worry about; depends on how old the manure is. Fresh manure and bedding is what is most likely to get hot. If it’s old and being sold as compost it might not still be “cooking”. My old compost piles have worms in them; they are not hot at all.[/QUOTE]

The manure and dirty shavings are dropped in daily from our ranch so they are fresh and not composted. The large roll off dumpster loads of manure that arrive daily are likely a week to 10 days old. This giant mound is directly next to the hay shed. I live in AZ where temperature averages have been 105 so that mound is cooking

[subk]

[QUOTE=imaginique;8747620]
Every time I move my manure pile I come across ashes where it has burned inside, and sometimes it is still smoking.[/QUOTE]
No and no.

What you are seeing is a heat loving fungus that is white-ish and can be confused for ash when you turn you pile. The “smoke” you are seeing is actually steam and it is very common and expected of any pile that is composting.

This type of spontaneous combustion is very, very rare–although I do get a break on my insurance coverage for my barn because I do not store hay in it and I eliminate the possibility!

Also the heat creation of the whatever is composting is driven by the carbon, nitrogen, oxygen ratios and not so much by the ambient temperature. Temperature that freezes the moisture of the pile has more effect on the composting process than heat.