PSSM in warmblood bloodlines

Last year I bought the horse of my dreams. A four year old, unhandled warmblood cross draft. He made good progress in his education but then things started to go wrong.

Disunited, hoppy kind of gait. Bucking, teeth baring, pawing the ground. The list goes on and on. The short story is I found out about a disease I’d never even heard of; PSSM.

The horse tested negative for type 1 but responded very well to high oil diet and exercise plan. We hope with correct handling he can still one day achieve in eventing/dressage.

His bloodline is Romanow von Pferdheim HOL – sire, Ramiro (Raimond, Valine), dam Laute (Fanatiker, Melanie)
Hinde BWP – sire, Hedjaz (Ibrahim, Mirza), dam Beauty (un Bonheur, Uriana).

We are in the UK where there seems to be a frustrating degree of ignorance and secrecy around PSSM/EPSM.

Do any of you know of symptomatic horses sharing these bloodlines?

I have a new website BRIDGEquine.com where I am trying to track genetic diseases in horses - all breeds in a n attempt to find source horses - I had trouble making sense of the pedigree info you posted - if you can give me the Sires name and the dams name (or if the dam is the draft horse and you are using the PSSM1 N/N to rule out the dam) - then just the sires name I can tell you if I have any other PSSM 2 horses with similar lines - from what I read on your post it was like the Romanov horse was the sire of your horse? and I’m not sure where the Hinde horse fits in? You can reply here or email me at foals@mts.net I am REALLY interested in the PSSM 2 peds as I have so few to work with at this point :slight_smile:

I understand her post to mean the sire of her horse is Romanow HOL and the dam is Hinde BWP.

Is it a possibility that the draft cross is the one with the PSSM? I only ask because I’ve read numerous articles on feeding draft types a specific diet of high fat / low carb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_polysaccharide_storage_myopathy

Not a wiki fan but this is what I have understood also. That it is very common in draft’s and Qh’s. Not saying that it can’t happen in a Wb, especially with all the crossing in some registries, but it is not traditionally a Wb issue. With the level of sport that most WB’s are used for, the disease would become fairly evident. At least as evident as it is in the other breeds that are known for carrying it.
Type 2 is testable if you want to make sure of the diagnosis. http://www.cvm.umn.edu/umec/lab/PSSM/home.html#diagnosis

The father is Holsteiner the mother is Belgian Warmblood. I’m trying to figure out where the draft cross is

Thought to be genetic in warm bloods

Animal Genetics offers DNA testing and detection for markers identifying horses that could suffer from PSSM in American Paint horses, Appaloosas, Draft Breeds, Quarter horses (horse with quarter horse blood) and Warmbloods. Animal Genetics is working on identifying the genetic link in other breeds of horses.

http://www.animalgenetics.us/Equine/Genetic_Disease/PSSM.asp

I believe Bayhawk is the resident expert in Holsteiners. Maybe he can provide some information on the sire.

[QUOTE=neversaynever;7696782]
Thought to be genetic in warm bloods

Animal Genetics offers DNA testing and detection for markers identifying horses that could suffer from PSSM in American Paint horses, Appaloosas, Draft Breeds, Quarter horses (horse with quarter horse blood) and Warmbloods. Animal Genetics is working on identifying the genetic link in other breeds of horses.

http://www.animalgenetics.us/Equine/Genetic_Disease/PSSM.asp[/QUOTE]

Hmm. This person has a horse that is part draft, which the disease is very common in, like 2/3’s of the population but assumes it is the Wb side?
Many people here either call a draft cross a WB or they breed WB to local mares and get them registered. One of the reasons why respectable WB registries should be very careful about letting in non-Wb horses into the books.

So the politics of this conversation continues…http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?416399-Czantiago-Disease-carrier

Thank you all for your comments so far. Sorry I did not make myself properly clear. The draft is the dam who is just down in the passport as Polyanna, nothing else.

The sire is Jessop Lovely Boy, whose own sire was Romanow and dam, Hinde. I was told by someone that if the horse was PSSM type 1 negative, then I should look at the warmblood side.

Reddog777, very good news you are trying to gather information on this subject. It will help a lot of people I am sure

Stoicfish, yes I am interested in the warmblood side of the story in this case because the horse clearly has symptoms. PSSM type 2 does not seem to be prevalent in the draft I understand. He is registered as a sport horse not a warmblood as such, though you’d be hard pressed to guess he was a draft cross looking at him. If I can work out how to post a photo, I’ll do it :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Stillriding;7696872]
Stoicfish, yes I am interested in the warmblood side of the story in this case because the horse clearly has symptoms. PSSM type 2 does not seem to be prevalent in the draft I understand. He is registered as a sport horse not a warmblood as such, though you’d be hard pressed to guess he was a draft cross looking at him. If I can work out how to post a photo, I’ll do it :)[/QUOTE]

This might be a good platform for education on this subject.
It is my understanding that Type 1 is definitely genetically identifiable with a test. However Type 2,

At present there is not a specific genetic test for type 2 PSSM and we do not have conclusive evidence that it is inherited.
.
from:http://www.cvm.umn.edu/umec/lab/PSSM/home.html

Of greatest importance is the realization that exertional rhabdomyolysis
comprises several myopathies that, despite similarities in clinical presentation,
differ considerably in regards to pathogenesis (cellular events, reactions, and other pathologic mechanisms occurring in the development of disease).

from:http://www.ker.com/library/advances/314.pdf

I think this is important because it broadens the scope of the disease way beyond Type 1 and type 2. What is commonly called “Type 2” is a multifactorial issue with several causes and prevalent in many breeds of horses that undergo strenuous exercise. The article actually separates the draft “type 1” disease from the rest, “type 2”.

A similar glycogen storage disorder has been reported in draft breeds. This syndrome is referred to as equine polysaccharide storage myopathy (EPSM). While similarities exist between PSSM and EPSM, draft horses with EPSM often exhibit signs not indicative of PSSM, including normal serum creatine kinase, difficulty backing and holding up limbs, a shivers-like gait, and loss of muscle mass. Some drafts afflicted with EPSM also show recumbency and weakness with only slight increases in serum CK and AST, and this combination of signs is not seen in horses with PSSM.

When viewed this way it seems to be a common issue with most horse and as it is common in Tb’s as well as Arabs, so you will probably see it in most of the breeds that used those breeds as a basis. Some one who was tracking this progression with a large data bank may be able to shed some light on the method of heritability.
However, asking people their personal experience with horses related to yours is not going to be very helpful as there are thousands of horses related to those bloodlines and the issue is obviously not directly inherited or a recently created disease.
In other words it would be like me having an issue with a horse that had Man O War in the pedigree and asking all those with Man O War decedents if they had similar issues. Too many horses and too many factors to correlate any useful type of information.

But I’m glad you have found something that has worked for him. Have you found any information on high fat diets and insulin resistance?

Stoicfish your response is appreciated.

My understanding is that type 2 PSSM is thought to be genetic but not genetic link has as you say been proven. To me it is a bit like Non A Non B Hepatitis way back when. It was known it existed but just hadn’t actually been found. When it was it became Hepatits C.

An experienced breeder told me recently that some horses seem to ‘grow out of’ tying up etc. I hope so.

Your point about bloodlines being common to many other horses is understood. I guess I am trying to make sense of a situation I find fairly difficult. If it does turn out horses like mine do have inherited issues, this surely will raise questions about breeding these animals, destined to suffer as they do.

Regarding insulin resistance. I have read something about this but in the short term at least, it is about trade offs. The improvement with the diet is remarkable I am happy to say. Perhaps it won’t have to be life long, if the condition can in fact resolve somehow.

No question

EPSSM IS in warmblood registries but I don’t think this horse is necessarily the right horse to use to “out” individual warmbloods with as she has 50% unknown breeding. We know that heavy drafts have a high incidence so you can not say the EPSSM comes from the sires breeding. Other issues are that both EPSSM and DSLD are conditions that affect horses more and more as they age. This make the conditions very difficult to catch and then to eradicate. EPSSM can be worked with…there have been Olympic level horses with EPSSM in for sure dressage and eventing. Dealing with EPSSM requires education, a good vet, and discipline, and your horses can probably function with the condition. PatO

I don’t think they "grow out of EPSSM, they grow INTO it, but I think even when we didn’t know it had a name people managed these horses by trial and error. Some things worked and some things didn’t. A good horse person has a big bag of tricks to try and a smart horse person doesn’t stick to one plan for all horses. The condition is not new…the name and identification is new and I believe we will find a whole family of these metabolic conditions. Some are aggrivated by how some people keep their horses, the same horse might do well in another persons care because their methods don’t aggrivate the condition. There is a lot more information now and better information on nutrition, good luck PatO