Would you expect a high sugar in the blood value?
Iâm following this because I thought the only way to definitively test for this was muscle biopsy.
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Yes that is what I have heard, too. But the blood test is done, and my vet is now on holiday for 3 months, and has not even heard of PSSM anyway. It has only been suggested by a friend, and at least some of the symptoms seem to fit for type 1. I am guessing here, a stab in the dark. The blood test showed high sugar in the blood, and high creatine kinase. On a low sugar diet already. Just wondered if anyone might have an answer for me. Have added fat to her diet, just in case. Easy and cheap to do.
NancyM, the high cpK is a good clue, too, that PSSM is an issue. Besides the adjustments youâve already done, think about regular gentle exercise (24/7 turnout good, or else lots of regular (ridden/in-hand) exercise beyond turnout) + more blanketing than for a normal horse (cold can exacerbate symptoms)+ exploring options like Acetyl L Carnitine in addition to the dietary changes youâve made. None of these changes will hurt a horse without PSSM, so the risk vs return is solid.
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PSSM1 is a hair test. Animal Genetics and I believe UC Davis can run them. Equisec does PSSM2 testing. I believe itâs a hair test also but you would have to check on that one.
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Your vet is âon holidayâ for 3 months? Iâm imagining, headed to FL⊠but does he not have someone assigned to cover for him in his absence?
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I am âsemi-remoteâ. This vet is the best option in this area, and is NOT an equine specialist. And not Florida, heading to Morocco actually, to ride a camel. And no, there is no one âassigned to coverâ in his absence. We all who use his service just hope that he does not retire completely any time soon. Scary, huh? My reality is different from some on this site. And thatâs OK, I accepted that when we moved here. Quizzing COTH helps.
@piedmontfields thanks for your input. Heavily blanketed already, and in a stall/paddock situation, not locked in. Is wandering around the paddock at will 24/7, poops are deposited around the paddock. Doing more of this as things are improving. Still a bit stiff, especially starting out, first few steps. Is successfully eating the altered diet with higher fat, reluctant at first.
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For $40 you can send a hair sample to Equine Genetics and have the PSSM results back a whole lot quicker than 3 months. https://www.animalgenetics.us/Equine/Genetic_Disease/PSSM.asp
This link from UC Davis has some useful information on if the hair or muscle biopsy is the best route to go with your horse. https://cvm.msu.edu/research/faculty-research/comparative-medical-genetics/valberg-laboratory/type-1-polysaccharide-storage-myopathy#11.-how-do-i-know-if-i-should-do-the-genetic-test-or-the-muscle-biopsy?
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How much fat have you added to his diet? I last researched it 5 years when I had a Belgian we thought might have it. Things may have changed since then. But at the time, they were advocating for a rather significant amount. Much more than you would give a horse on a general low-carb diet for Cushings or Insulin Resistance.
You might find it helpful to poke around on the Draft Power forum on Rural Heritage. PSSM most often afflicts draft horses (IiRC the disease was first identified in a draft horse whose body was donated for research after he was euthanized). There was a lot of good info on that forum as several of the participants had dealt with/ were dealing with the disease in one or more horses and were going it mostly alone due their remote locations.
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Our hay is low sugar (10), it was tested this year. This is not by our choice, it just IS this year, due to when it was cut, and how long it took to dry. We only have our own hay, made on our own farm. I feed mostly hay, very little concentrate, to everyone. A bit of beet pulp with mineral supplement. All do just fine on this diet. This pony was rumoured to have âfounder issuesâ from her previous owner, but never investigated, never treated, and badly shod, and/or neglected feet. WE donât think that this pony has ever foundered, but are still careful with her diet. QH type pony, of mixed and unknown heritage. Big pony, 14 hands, stocky build. Lame when she arrived in mid summer (previous owner was gonna shoot her and use her for wolf bait, because he felt she had âfoundered againâ. He does not use a vet for anything, ever.) We looked at her feet, me with 50 years of equine experience, and my hubby, a retired farrier of high quality, and we did not think founder was an issue, at all, and never had been. Pony was lame at that point, probably/possibly due to feet being cut back to the quick by the previous owner, who knows nothing about farrier skills. She came sound this summer, got her broke and was riding her lightly this fall/early winter. Then she got stiff again. Immediately, we think âfounderâ⊠sheâs a pony, and has a bit of a cresty neck. But her feet didnât look like it, cool, and no big pulse. I put the boots on her, in case I was wrong, sheâs been wearing them since then until this AM, when I took them off. (Her feet are fine). Over the next week, things got worse, she got stiffer. Was giving her bute, but with little effect. Looked bad. At that point, took blood and delivered it to my vet to send in to lab. Vet thinks founder, but he hasnât seen her since summer. Itâs pretty easy to think âfounderâ. I also got onto the âfounder trainâ for a day or so, then got off it again LOL. My first thought was that it was metabolic somehow, thus the blood test. So I was back to thinking metabolic when PSSM was suggested by a friend who has also dealt with it.
Pony now is eating mostly grass hay, but I have started re-introducing some of our alfalfa/grass mix hay, also low sugar, as it was advised in the PSSM article I read. She had been eating this hay in months past, but when this all started, I went back to the straight grass hay, just in case the alfalfa could be an issue. Both are cut off our own farm fields, some with alfalfa and some without. 1/2 a cup of beet pulp pellets, soaked. 1/2 cup of canola oil. 1/2 cup of ground flax. 1/2 cup of high fat extruded feed (to get her to eat it all, which she does, now). I was adding the mineral mix as well, but have cut that out now that Iâve increased the amount of extruded feed, which is a balanced feed. And she has access to a TM + sel salt lick. She gets this twice a day. The high fat extruded feed, I was using through the summer as âcookiesâ, treats. So not a lot. Vet is afraid she will get âfatâ on this. But the pony, though she is bulky, is not actually âfatâ. She does have the outline of rib on her sides, you can find them. I havenât seen her since sheâs been wrapped up in the horse blankets of course, the last few weeks, but Iâm hoping she can get back to some light work at some point soon.
My theory is that what was âthoughtâ to be founder several times by her previous owner, was, in fact, PSSM issues as well, uninvestigated, untreated, and unidentified. That that is what has plagued her, on and off, depending on what she was eating etc, not lamenetic issues or founder. Her previous owner mostly just had her thrown out in the field, and purchased the cheapest hay he could find (kinda black bales, not nice), and free fed that. No mineral source, not even a lick. No grain or concentrate of any sort. And who knows what the sugar content of that hay was or wasnât.
Do I just keep at it with the high fat diet as it is and wait and see? Or increase it? What do you think? I donât want to over feed her.
To be clear, the horse with suspected PSSM is a pony? Or ?
PSSM management recommendations have evolved. There are concerns about going very high fat with many individuals who are already IR prone (drafts, QHs, ponies), as good results can often be obtained with very low NSC/sugar diets instead. Also, many horses will stop finding the fat palatable after some time.
Also, in terms of âlow NSCâ hay, some PSSM affected equines need something VERY low, like 9%/less; others can handle 13-14%/less.
A ration balancer is one way to provide adequate feed (protein, V/M) without much sugar.
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Yes, a pony, 14 hands, feral bred, in captivity for 3 years now. Used as a pack horse before I bought her (a waste of a cute pony, IMO). Iâve owned her 6 months. QH type, bulky built but not overweight at the moment. Coming 8 yrs old. Perhaps some QH in her heritage??? Itâs a common breed around here (itâs cowboy country, so some QH is probable). Not full QH. What else may be in her genetic make up is unknown.
I only have the hay I have, there is no other hay available. NSC is 10, thatâs as good as I can do. We do not have hay available at feed stores like in civilized situations. The alfalfa mix is about 30% alfalfa. The grass hay is âmeadow grassâ, a mix of local grasses, not seeded- timothy, orchard, assorted water grasses. Lower protein than the alfalfa grass mix, but otherwise quite similar grasses other than the alfalfa. All cut late this year. We supply hay to horse owners locally.
I am considering trying adding a Vitamin E supplement, with or without selenium. This sort of thing is probably available to purchase. Any input on this? If I use the stuff with selenium, Iâm going to have to NOT use the mineral mix that I have, it will be too much selenium for her to use both.
The pony has improved since the diet change, perhaps due to the diet change, IDK. But is still stiff, not yet ârightâ. How long before I can actually hope to see recovery, IF the diet I can supply is effective? Sheâs eating everything, no problem. Has anyone here dealt with this personally?
Can you link to the Draft Power forum for me? Iâve looked for this, but got nowhere. Not very internet savvy.
It can take several months plus very slow re-conditioning to get a horse back to normal after a mild PSSM episode of tying up. Longer for a more severe episode.
Vit E is considered a very helpful supplement for PSSM cases. I use this for my mare:
https://www.scahealth.com/fr/p/ultracruz-equine-vitamin-e-horse-supplement?gclid=CjwKCAiA3abwBRBqEiwAKwICA-HvLJfLNTSc6IFd4FMvyZ5jP9H3ag3qNtBmGYcbEeRcUurwI1DLlxoCTFcQAvD_BwE
I give about 2000 IU in summer; 4000 IU in winter to a 1150 lb horse. For some PSSM cases, you need to supplement at much higher levels to see an effect (like 10,000 IU per day).
p.s. In case I wasnât clear, I do deal with PSSM management âpersonallyâ, as my mare was diagnosed after a tying up situation 5+ years ago. She has been very well managed with very minimal symptoms since.
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RE: Vit E, I just get natural E capsules from Amazon and chuck them in her pound of ration balancer. It has recently gone up but still a bit cheaper than most of the horse Vitamin E supplements. My mare is NOT PSSM but on a hay only ration year round. I give 1600 units via capsule and her ration balancer has another 500 units in a pound. In all the time I have been doing this (well over a year) I have only found 4 capsules that didnât make it down the horseâs gullet.
Susan
Dr. Reilly of Equine Medical Surgical Associates in West Chester, Pa will answer any questions you may have (at no charge)
He really was a big asset for my draft cross who had EPSM (PSSM).
Thanks all for all your input! I found some Vit E + sel yesterday, so bought that. But to boost Vit E higher than this, Iâm going to have to look for Vit E without selenium, which was not available at the feed store I have access to. Started with a half dose last night. Thanks for the timeline @piedmontfields , I did not know if I was getting anywhere with this in a positive manner or not. I now think perhaps I am, but it is just going to take longer. And thatâs OK.
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Wow, that sounds great. My vet recommended Elevate WS liquid as itâs better absorbed in liquid form. Itâs mucky, hard to get and expensive. Do you think the E capsules are the same thing?
