Pull These Front Shoes?

[SporthorseFun]

This horse is currently retired and was shod to protect his hooves in the rocky pasture and correct the angles (low angles, thin soles) on the fronts. We have way overshot the mark according to last weeks radiographs. The two front shoes are almost three weeks into a five week cycle and are starting to come loose.

Should I pull the shoes and put him in boots? I really want that wedge pad out from under him and his balance to come back to neutral, which works great for him, and it will probably help his stiff sore neck to feel better.

The horse is due to be moved cross-country in two weeks and a known expert farrier will take over. If I get good fitting boots, will this be OK do you think?

[Libby2563]

I would be disinclined to change anything right before he ships across the country. I’d get the current shoes secured and schedule an appointment with the new farrier for maybe a week after the move.

[SporthorseFun]

Thanks Libby, I can see why you say that. I have an appointment two days after he arrives at the five week mark.

Edited for spelling.

[JB]

@SporthorseFun

We have way overshot the mark according to last weeks radiographs.

what does this mean?

@SporthorseFun

I really want that wedge pad out from under him and his balance to come back to neutral

What does “neutral” mean?

I see feet that have a decent P3 angle, removing the wedge would drop that angle

If the horse is currently sound, then he’ll be in his new home around the time he’ll need to be redone and I’d leave it at that.

[IPEsq]

If you look at the bone alignment, you can see that this angle isn’t crazy high in comparison to his conformation. There’s a good amount of sole so you can probably keep the angles good with the right trim removing the wedge. This looks like a 2* wedge maybe? You might want to try to go down gradually before removing it entirely.

A big trailer ride is hard on them. I wouldn’t change anything beforehand. But with 4 nails a side and already loose, what’s going on with the hoof wall that’s made it loose already?

[SporthorseFun]

@IPEsq

If you look at the bone alignment, you can see that this angle isn’t crazy high in comparison to his conformation. There’s a good amount of sole so you can probably keep the angles good with the right trim removing the wedge. This looks like a 2* wedge maybe? You might want to try to go down gradually before removing it entirely.

A big trailer ride is hard on them. I wouldn’t change anything beforehand. But with 4 nails a side and already loose, what’s going on with the hoof wall that’s made it loose already?

Yes, I think the last two trims have been to increase the NPA angle, as the farrier mentioned this skill, but I don ‘t think it was necessary. I am hoping the expert farrier will balance the hoof first with the trim, so it is nice that there is a good amount of sole. The wedge is a 2 degree. From the feedback I have been getting, it sounds like I should wait until after the trailer ride to make an adjustment. This is good advice, as I worried about strain on tendons and ligaments with lowering the angle now.

The wall at the quarters on one hoof is breaking up and the hoof is slightly hanging over the shoe. As for why shoes with eight nails is already coming loose is a great question, and this really worries me. Do steeper angles creat a flip-flop effect? Is that OK? Also, I see when the shoes come off for the next trim, the walls are very thin, then the rasp comes out again to finish up the job, so they have lost that strength.

Edit for spelling.

[shoer76]

Pulling the shoes is only gonna cause the next Farrier to have to deal with broken up feet in a few weeks. I’d suggest keeping them on.

Right Front has a serious broken back coffin joint even with the wedge.

[IPEsq]

No wedges won’t cause that but any sort of pad won’t help shoe fit issues with shelly walls. Sounds like perhaps he could be shod more full if he’s already growing over the sides.

[EmilyM]

I say don’t change until you ship cross country. That would invite trouble and could screw up the cross country plans.

[SporthorseFun]

@shoer76

Pulling the shoes is only gonna cause the next Farrier to have to deal with broken up feet in a few weeks. I’d suggest keeping them on.

Right Front has a serious broken back coffin joint even with the wedge.

@shoer76

Pulling the shoes is only gonna cause the next Farrier to have to deal with broken up feet in a few weeks. I’d suggest keeping them on.

Right Front has a serious broken back coffin joint even with the wedge.

This is very true. I guess I was thinking I could save the hoof from breaking up with boots, but, you are right, they do break up at the wall when the shoes come off. I have not been able to do that in the last two years, pull the shoes for a few months and let everything settle and get strong again. Anyway, I will take the boot option off the table. Our farrier is coming tomorrow to secure the shoes. Interesting, Shoer76 - I did not see the broken back coffin joint, I was so focused on the plamar angle being so positive when I am used to zero or even negative. Yet when I looked at the picture, it was confusing, as opposed to the radiographs. Thank you for this observation.

What would you do from here the next shoeing cycle? He is a dressage horse going back into light work - reconditioning at the walk only until the hooves are straightened out, and he has some support. The back are flat as a pancake with 9 mm sole depth and a completely prolapsed frog. Had the current farrier put a leather pad underneath with vettec packing after seeing the films.

[shoer76]

The next shoeing cycle I would suggest shoeing him and riding him.

9mm and prolapsed frog on the hind feet and no negative angle?

[SporthorseFun]

PM’d you.

[shoer76]

No messages on my end. I’m happy to keep things public anyway…

[SporthorseFun]

Didn’t want to distract from the original post regarding the hinds. Didn’t get the hind photos quite ready in time. It is so interesting to see where we started and the iterations over time.

Back to the fronts: Comparing the centers if rotation p1, p2, and the coffin bone, I see the broken back position relative to the coffin bone on the right front.

Hmmm, not sure what to make of it. This is new territory.

[SporthorseFun]

I asked for a more fully shod hoof fronts and backs with a wide web shoe. The shoe choice changes just when I think we’ve got the right one on him. Very different way of stocking the truck, maybe, as in, here I am, I don’t have that shoe again on the truck.

[shoer76]

The good news is you’re about to work with an expert Farrier, so you should be excited…

[SporthorseFun]

Are people excited about working with expert farriers? I guess you would be excited or have known people who are excited? That’s interesting!

[shoer76]

IDK, good luck with everything.

[JB]

@SporthorseFun

Are people excited about working with expert farriers?

When people find someone who (allegedly) will actually be able to improve the feet, which ultimately improves the horse, then yes, they get excited.

excited about a competent saddle fitter, farrier/trimmer, massage therapist, anything to finally help the horse make progress, does excite a lot of people.

[SporthorseFun]

Yes, JB, when you say allegedly, you have to know the ins and outs. Expert in this case is because many farriers don’t yet have the experience or knowledge to combine the discipline the horse is used for, his particular thoroughbred like feet, horse keeping conditions (all night turnout, summers are dewey and wet, wet, wet), and a previous injury. We could get into the footing in arenas as well, something I realized I have to pay attention to too. Farriers have their own niches and the way they like to do things, and it works. That is really great. There are different schools of thought. That is great too. I don’t understand trimming to the widest part of the frog. There is much to know.

Saddle fitting, and all of that is more maintenance, and brings good stuff and a bill, but I would say a new saddle might be something I could get excited about!

Everyone has been great in helping me figure out what to do to move this horse across the country with success. Thank you so much. I love this forum! It makes a difference. Someone is coming to secure the shoes today.

Edit for spelling.